Obama Hates on the Bible[views:9044][posts:123]___________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 1:20pm - FuckIsMySignature ""] Obama - "Which passages of scripture should guide our public policy?" Obama asks in the speech. "Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is OK and that eating shellfish is an abomination? Or we could go with Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith? Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount?" James Dobson - "I think he's deliberately distorting the traditional understanding of the Bible to fit his own world view, his own confused theology," Dobson said, later adding that Obama is "dragging biblical understanding through the gutter." http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/24/evangelical.vote/index.html aaand Obama continues to have my vote. |
| _______________________________ [Jun 24,2008 1:22pm - aril ""] he also wants to decriminalize mary jane I've heard. |
| ______________________________ [Jun 24,2008 1:23pm - Yeti ""] seriously, sounds to me like he is putting the ridiculousness of the bible into perspective. |
| ___________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 1:24pm - dreadkill ""] i hate politicians, but the guy's right about the bible. unfortunately for him, that's not going to win him a lot of votes down south. |
| _________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 1:24pm - ellesauruswork ""] yes we can!! |
| ______________________________ [Jun 24,2008 1:25pm - Yeti ""] the whole "bible discrediting" and "black" thing will be severely detrimental to him. even though i like Obama, anyone but John McCain. |
| ______________________________ [Jun 24,2008 1:27pm - Yeti ""] after reading that article, i want to punch him in his stupid face. if only i had a pain teleportation monitor. |
| ____________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 2:48pm - Murph nli ""] FuckIsMySignature said: James Dobson - "I think he's deliberately distorting the traditional understanding of the Bible to fit his own world view, his own confused theology," Dobson said, later adding that Obama is "dragging biblical understanding through the gutter." http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/24/evangelical.vote/index.html aaand Obama continues to have my vote. Evangelists make me laugh. Their biblical understanding is slanted and limited. Dobson has a great point, the fact that politicians mold their speeches to fit certain types of areas doesn't make sense. Obama using Old Testament teaching in regards to New Testament teaching is moot, because in theory, Jesus' covenant overrode the Jewish Covenant. And last, nothing makes me angrier than the fact that religion plays any role in affairs. I could elaborate for hours, but this is fundamentally wrong. |
| ____________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 2:57pm - ConquerTheBaphomet ""] I don't like to mix faith with politics even though the two are hopelessly linked together. Everyone has a different perspective on Scripture but that's what studying the Word is for; to determine what the passages are really trying to say. God may speak to us one way and the next time you read it, it could have an entirely different meaning behind it. That's the neat thing about God is that he's always teaching us new things all the time, even through the same pieces of Scripture. |
| ______________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 3:00pm - GoatCatalyst ""] Glad I'm sovereign. |
| ________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 3:06pm - xmikex ""] bigtime LOL @ evangelists saying that anyone else is distorting interpretations of the bible. In the comments to be aired later Tuesday, Dobson said Obama should not be referencing antiquated dietary codes and passages from the Old Testament that are no longer relevant to the teachings of the New Testament. Yeah, I could see how something like that could upset people. It's kind of like using a 2,000 year old book full of vague symbolism and stories that no one will ever be able to prove really happened to govern an international superpower. I could see how that would upset some. |
| ____________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 3:15pm - ConquerTheBaphomet ""] Mike, not that Lee Strobel is particularly the best at apologetics but in his book, The Case For Faith, the people he interviews, such as William Lane Craig and Ravi Zacharias, make definitive and convincing cases for the truth of these stories and their happenings. You should give that book a chance. |
| ____________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 3:29pm - Murph nli ""] ConquerTheBaphomet said:Mike, not that Lee Strobel is particularly the best at apologetics but in his book, The Case For Faith, the people he interviews, such as William Lane Craig and Ravi Zacharias, make definitive and convincing cases for the truth of these stories and their happenings. You should give that book a chance. If even many of the stories were not just symbolism but actually true (whether within the state of matter as we perceive it now or in alternate states) that point is just shitty. All over the globe, myths are handed down by generation, and who knows some may just be symbols, or some may be true. Christianity, just like every other religion or spiritual or metaphysical history does not have a monopoly on truth, myth, etc. Here's my point, if biblical stories are true, and that some of these stories are real, then that means that a) The first commandment and its wording indicate their are other gods, and that Jehovah is the strongest and therefore should be worshipped above all. b) Other traditions, describing the same events from a different lens, are now just as valuable and useful as Judeo-Christian-Islamic teachings. Once again, the point is that there can only be diviseness even if these things actually happened, because they aren't unique to that portion of the world, as evidenced by your own text (ie. other gods, other priests having powers, etc). Keep your bullshit outta my life. |
| ______________________________ [Jun 24,2008 3:32pm - Yeti ""] polytheistic religions have always been more plausible to me. i'd much rather the rich myths of Scandinavian mythology than the crap we are fed about suffering and sins and all that shit from this wacky religion. |
| ____________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 3:35pm - porphyria ""] bennyhillifier |
| ____________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 3:37pm - Murph nli ""] My other question is why, from a faith-perspective, anyone would need to write a book making a case for scripture to be historical? Faith and truth are binaries, unless following that wonderful mantra of "The Word is the truth." If faith isn't enough anymore (because the lay people are finally opening a fucking book) that might just tell you something. |
| _______________________________ [Jun 24,2008 3:42pm - aril ""] A good portion of the Bible was written during the Babylonian Exile. They needed a sense of hope and connection with their inner souls. In moments of despair, the creative and poetic sides of people seem to become more prominent. |
| _______________________________ [Jun 24,2008 4:14pm - nemo ""] Fuck god and fuck government |
| ____________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 4:38pm - ConquerTheBaphomet ""] Where in history has any biblical story researched been proven untrue? Can you pinpoint one for me? As far as polytheism, God handed that commandment down, not because of recognition for other gods, but to say that He is the ONLY God and therefore to create other gods beside him is futile. |
| __________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 4:41pm - largefreakatzero ""] The Bible is a nice collection of fictional stories, nothing else. If you base your life on a book, then LOL@U. |
| _______________________________ [Jun 24,2008 4:42pm - aril ""] BURN HIM |
| _________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 4:45pm - SacreligionNLI ""] ConquerTheBaphomet said:Where in history has any biblical story researched been proven untrue? Can you pinpoint one for me? As far as polytheism, God handed that commandment down, not because of recognition for other gods, but to say that He is the ONLY God and therefore to create other gods beside him is futile. go fuck yourself |
| _________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 4:46pm - SacreligionNLI ""] oh yeah, and moses parting the red sea. it was the dry season and a tributary of the red sea in the section they may have crossed rapidly fills up and empties depending on rainfall, etc. |
| ____________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 4:51pm - Murph nli ""] ConquerTheBaphomet said:Where in history has any biblical story researched been proven untrue? Can you pinpoint one for me? As far as polytheism, God handed that commandment down, not because of recognition for other gods, but to say that He is the ONLY God and therefore to create other gods beside him is futile. First, I never said any biblical stories are implicitly untrue, I simply said that even if they are, not all the effects would be positive for the religions which use the texts as sacred scripture as it opens the door to many more interpretations (world events such as those depicted in the bible affect all cultures, not just those writing about them), Second, if you bothered opening up the bible for a second, you'd realize that the Old Testament is full of stories of Jehovah's champions proving their abilities to other tribes as being superior to those tribes' gods (much like pawns on a chessboard). Reading the scripture, however, you'll notice that no matter what other sect is being invaded, from the Egyptians to the tribes worshiping Ba'al, that the existence of the other god is present, even though distinctly inferior (based on the same archetypal storyline used again and again). For a specific example, look at Moses and Aaron's challenging of the other priests who use magic to mimic the same miracles they create. The wording is the same in English as in Greek as in Hebrew, "You will have no other gods BEFORE me." It doesn't even specify that lesser gods cannot be worshiped or idolized, they simply cannot be placed spiritually before Jehovah (who mimics the Sun, in proportion and dominance over the planets, the shit is astral man). I don't know what to tell you bud. |
| _________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 4:55pm - SacreligionNLI ""] ba'al ftw |
| ____________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 4:59pm - ConquerTheBaphomet ""] "Lesser gods" can never be worshiped because of their nonexistence and inferiority in the mind of God. The Old Testament is documented history recorded by God's people. His actions, however shocking to us, are easily justified. God has the authority to create life and the sovereignty to take it. My life is not based on any book but by the faith and grace that God gives to me. The Bible is not an end-all for faith but a solid foundation for it. How we live our lives incorporated with God's plan is what being a Christian is, not by reading a book. Other religions are useless to me because religion in itself is a useless humanistic creation. Mock me all you want, largefreak and Sac, but you do nothing but display your ignorance. |
| ____________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 5:01pm - ConquerTheBaphomet ""] Murph%20nli said:My other question is why, from a faith-perspective, anyone would need to write a book making a case for scripture to be historical? Faith and truth are binaries, unless following that wonderful mantra of "The Word is the truth." If faith isn't enough anymore (because the lay people are finally opening a fucking book) that might just tell you something. Apologetics. |
| _________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 5:02pm - SacreligionNLI ""] you do realize "god's people" made up probably less than 10% of the world population and encompassed an area smaller than the United States? |
| ____________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 5:04pm - Murph nli ""] ConquerTheBaphomet said:"Lesser gods" can never be worshiped because of their nonexistence and inferiority in the mind of God. The Old Testament is documented history recorded by God's people. His actions, however shocking to us, are easily justified. God has the authority to create life and the sovereignty to take it. My life is not based on any book but by the faith and grace that God gives to me. The Bible is not an end-all for faith but a solid foundation for it. How we live our lives incorporated with God's plan is what being a Christian is, not by reading a book. Other religions are useless to me because religion in itself is a useless humanistic creation. Mock me all you want, largefreak and Sac, but you do nothing but display your ignorance. That hurt to read. |
| _________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 5:05pm - SacreligionNLI ""] ConquerTheBaphomet said:Other religions are useless to me because religion in itself is a useless humanistic creation. i don't even have to say anything else. you just proved your own hypocrisy |
| ____________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 5:06pm - ConquerTheBaphomet ""] SacreligionNLI said:you do realize "god's people" made up probably less than 10% of the world population and encompassed an area smaller than the United States? That matters, why? Does an impact on a world have to only be made by a large group of people? |
| _________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 5:06pm - SacreligionNLI ""] BECAUSE THE FUCKING WORLD ENCOMPASSES WAY MORE THAN YOUR FUCKING POINT OF VIEW |
| ____________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 5:07pm - ConquerTheBaphomet ""] SacreligionNLI said: ConquerTheBaphomet said:Other religions are useless to me because religion in itself is a useless humanistic creation. i don't even have to say anything else. you just proved your own hypocrisy Believing in religion for religion's sake is what I'm talking about. |
| _________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 5:07pm - SacreligionNLI ""] actually... [img][/ |
| ____________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 5:07pm - Murph nli ""] ConquerTheBaphomet said: Murph%20nli said:My other question is why, from a faith-perspective, anyone would need to write a book making a case for scripture to be historical? Faith and truth are binaries, unless following that wonderful mantra of "The Word is the truth." If faith isn't enough anymore (because the lay people are finally opening a fucking book) that might just tell you something. Apologetics. Apologetics defends Christianity. Christianity pretty much invalidates the majority of Old Testament covenant, so why even bother with those stories? |
| ____________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 5:07pm - ConquerTheBaphomet ""] SacreligionNLI said:BECAUSE THE FUCKING WORLD ENCOMPASSES WAY MORE THAN YOUR FUCKING POINT OF VIEW No kidding. There is no reason to get hostile. |
| _________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 5:09pm - SacreligionNLI ""] "believing in religion for religion's sake" eh? by definition that is contradicting the great words you follow. religion includes christianity, judaism, islam, hinduism, buddhism, taoism, all polytheistic ideologies |
| ____________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 5:09pm - ConquerTheBaphomet ""] Murph%20nli said: ConquerTheBaphomet said: Murph%20nli said:My other question is why, from a faith-perspective, anyone would need to write a book making a case for scripture to be historical? Faith and truth are binaries, unless following that wonderful mantra of "The Word is the truth." If faith isn't enough anymore (because the lay people are finally opening a fucking book) that might just tell you something. Apologetics. Apologetics defends Christianity. Christianity pretty much invalidates the majority of Old Testament covenant, so why even bother with those stories? Christianity includes the Old Testament. While Jesus fulfills the majority of the Old Testament that's not a reason to ignore it. |
| _________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 5:10pm - SacreligionNLI ""] therefore, believing in religion for "religion's sake" means you accept the fact that other people have other gods that they worship. awwww you broke one of your commandments |
| ____________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 5:11pm - ConquerTheBaphomet ""] SacreligionNLI said:"believing in religion for religion's sake" eh? by definition that is contradicting the great words you follow. religion includes christianity, judaism, islam, hinduism, buddhism, taoism, all polytheistic ideologies Faith and belief is a lifestyle, not a religious box to be tucked away, in my opinion. Clearly you do not understand what I'm saying. |
| ____________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 5:13pm - ConquerTheBaphomet ""] SacreligionNLI said:therefore, believing in religion for "religion's sake" means you accept the fact that other people have other gods that they worship. awwww you broke one of your commandments I never once said believing in religion for religion's sake is what I stand for. Read my posts again. |
| _________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 5:23pm - SacreligionNLI ""] ok...so let me try to sum up: you either believe that the spiritual nature of human beings is enough reason to have faith in something, or you are brainwashed enough to think that the one religion you were brought up and forced into is the ONE word of God and therefore all other religions are just shabby attempts at saying what the Bible says? Am I on the right track? It's one of the two, right? Your mindless yammering is throwing me off and I can't figure out what you're trying to say. |
| ____________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 5:31pm - ConquerTheBaphomet ""] Who said I was forced and brought up into anything? I came upon this on my own. My belief in faith is brought upon my acceptance of who God is and his evidence to me every day. It is evidenced by how I think, feel and see. The Bible is a guiding light for anyone following His path but like I said, it is not the end-all of faith. God himself is the source of that. |
| ____________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 5:34pm - Murph nli ""] ConquerTheBaphomet said: Murph%20nli said: ConquerTheBaphomet said: Christianity includes the Old Testament. While Jesus fulfills the majority of the Old Testament that's not a reason to ignore it. Jesus does not fulfill the majority of the Old Testament, not by any standard. Christianity, to succeed, has to claim to invalidate (in their vernacular, update or succeed) the covenant of the Old Testament. |
| ___________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 5:35pm - FuckIsMySignature ""] i <3 this thread. |
| ____________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 5:36pm - Murph nli ""] oops, I put my words in someone else's mouth there. |
| _________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 5:39pm - SacreligionNLI ""] the new testament = the old testament with ovaries |
| ____________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 5:46pm - Murph nli ""] ConquerTheBaphomet said:Who said I was forced and brought up into anything? I came upon this on my own. My belief in faith is brought upon my acceptance of who God is and his evidence to me every day. It is evidenced by how I think, feel and see. The Bible is a guiding light for anyone following His path but like I said, it is not the end-all of faith. God himself is the source of that. Fine. That is great. In our present day, however, all I ask is that in the political realm you check that shit at the door. You cannot have two voices, and you also can't have one guided by faith because it, empirically, should not be given the same weight as race, sex, disability, etc. because it is monopolizing in its scope. The Christian way is no longer THE WAY. You summed it up yourself by saying you 'think, feel, and see' based on your 'faith.' Hence why, in my opinion, 'religion and faith' are unbelievably dangerous because no matter how hard they try to assimilate, they are not flexible and cannot accommodate the needs of everyone. I am sick and tired of living with people who think their opinions matter just because they can have one. That's why we're in such dire straits now, as a predominantly CHRISTIAN nation. And I unequivocally do not care what schooling people have had on the subject of theology and/or world history, because no matter what you've paid or who has taught you, my library card and my eager eyes have the same abilities. I end by saying I hope your shit crumbles, not because I'm ignorance, but because I am aware that you're wrong and you've fucked my world up enough. |
| ____________________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 6:11pm - ConquerTheBaphomet ""] Do not place an entire history of religious oppression and corruption solely on my shoulders and hate ME specifically for it. I never said anyone had to listen to me. I chose to respond in this thread and you responded to me and hence, our elongated debate. I respect you and your pursuit of knowledge as I am on the same path. Our difference is that we choose to become knowledgeable in different capacities. I do not wish any ill on you despite your hostilities for me. I refuse to attack the character of a person because in an egg shell type discussion like this, it is easy for tempers to flare and cause ad hominem attacks. If that's your path, then so be it. You will see how destructive it is to a psyche to continue your hatred of something instead of just accepting its existence and move on. Hate tears at you and breaks you down. Maybe our paths will cross one day and instead of throwing punches we can shake hands. |
| _________________________________ [Jun 24,2008 6:15pm - W3 nli ""] so are there any tits in this thread or what |