Democracy[views:3585][posts:38]____________________________________ [Apr 19,2006 1:39pm - infoterror ""] [img] These were all Democratic decisions. 1. Hiroshima and Nagasaki 2. Pollution of the Great Lakes 3. Extermination of Buffalo 4. Massacre of Branch Davidians in Waco, TX 5. Frog deformities from pollution 6. Concentration Camps invented by the British 7. NATO bombing of Belgrade, YU 8. 9. [URL=http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Apr05/Sanders0401.htm]Starving Iraqi Children 10. Reconstruction It's not just America that's the problem. It's democracy. |
| _________________________________________ [Apr 19,2006 1:42pm - NorwellBob_NLI ""] "Wah, wah, I hate Amerikkka". Communism is the only way to go! No, wait, anarchy is more metal! Lame. Stop listening to your college professors. P.S. - America wasn't founded as a democracy; it was founded as a republic. |
| ______________________________________ [Apr 19,2006 1:48pm - the_reverend ""] [img] |
| _____________________________________________ [Apr 19,2006 1:52pm - DrinkHardThrashHard ""] Katamari assault |
| ______________________________________ [Apr 19,2006 1:53pm - the_reverend ""] katamari democracy? |
| ____________________________________________ [Apr 19,2006 2:37pm - Man_of_the_Century ""] None of those were democratic decisions. Wait, I'll give you a shot to make a connection... |
| _________________________________________ [Apr 20,2006 1:48pm - NorwellBob_NLI ""] I guess we don't get a response. And here I was, all ready to learn something. |
| ___________________________________ [Apr 20,2006 2:16pm - dreadkill ""] NorwellBob_NLI said:"Wah, wah, I hate Amerikkka". Communism is the only way to go! No, wait, anarchy is more metal! Lame. Stop listening to your college professors. P.S. - America wasn't founded as a democracy; it was founded as a republic. i'm tired of the whining too. too many people are whining and not enough people are doing anything about the things they are whining about. |
| ____________________________________ [Apr 20,2006 2:25pm - infoterror ""] NorwellBob_NLI said:"Wah, wah, I hate Amerikkka". NO, the whole point was that DEMOCRACY is the problem, not America. |
| _____________________________________ [Apr 20,2006 2:43pm - HailTheLeaf ""] The public was never asked if they wanted any of those things to happen, and the answer would've been "no", but they never asked, that's the problem. No citizens have ever gone to their government demanding war on another nation. |
| ______________________________________________ [Apr 20,2006 2:52pm - BobNOMAAMRooney nli ""] Melt dem Tojos GOOD |
| ____________________________________________ [Apr 20,2006 2:58pm - Man_of_the_Century ""] HailTheLeaf said:The public was never asked if they wanted any of those things to happen, and the answer would've been "no", but they never asked, that's the problem. No citizens have ever gone to their government demanding war on another nation. Ok, so you accounted for the first one (cause the only other two about war were NATO, which wasn't just the U.S. and the reconstruction which was post war). Wait, thats right... I bet that we, if a vote did occur, would have voted, it would have been in favor of the bomb. First, they attacked Americans directly and second, people back then supported the war. Wanna try again? |
| _________________________________________ [Apr 20,2006 2:59pm - NorwellBob_NLI ""] OK, so what do you propose as the alternative? infoterror said:NorwellBob_NLI said:"Wah, wah, I hate Amerikkka". NO, the whole point was that DEMOCRACY is the problem, not America. |
| _________________________________________ [Apr 20,2006 3:06pm - NorwellBob_NLI ""] Also, how exactly would you expect people to be able to vote on polluting a lake over the course of ten years? Sounds like that one is more of an issue with industrialization. How is "democracy" responsible for hunters wiping out the buffalo, well before they had the technology or understanding to predict their extinction or the subsequent effects? And how, exactly, should they have put the Waco situation, a local situation, by the way, not a national one, to vote? "Hey, people, should we force our way into the compound or not? Hurry up and vote wicked fuckin' quick!" No, their actions should have been predetermined by laws already voted on. If people don't like those laws, it is incumbent upon them to educate themselves and work to change the laws. Sounds to me like you don't really know just what democracy is, you're just looking for another way to rebel, and shaking your fist at whatever you think America stands for is the uber-metal way to do it. Lame lame and lame. Don't like "democracy", then jump a flight somewhere else. |
| ____________________________________ [Apr 20,2006 3:49pm - anonymous ""] its a great album |
| _____________________________________ [Apr 20,2006 4:31pm - HailTheLeaf ""] Man_of_the_Century said:HailTheLeaf said:The public was never asked if they wanted any of those things to happen, and the answer would've been "no", but they never asked, that's the problem. No citizens have ever gone to their government demanding war on another nation. Ok, so you accounted for the first one (cause the only other two about war were NATO, which wasn't just the U.S. and the reconstruction which was post war). Wait, thats right... I bet that we, if a vote did occur, would have voted, it would have been in favor of the bomb. First, they attacked Americans directly and second, people back then supported the war. Wanna try again? I wasn't trying to make a connection, just pointing out that the public is never actually represnted in decisions, (like to go to war) in which an outcome that will favor people in power is possible over the will of the people they are supposed to be representing. |
| ___________________________________ [Apr 20,2006 4:33pm - dreadkill ""] NorwellBob_NLI said:Also, how exactly would you expect people to be able to vote on polluting a lake over the course of ten years? Sounds like that one is more of an issue with industrialization. How is "democracy" responsible for hunters wiping out the buffalo, well before they had the technology or understanding to predict their extinction or the subsequent effects? And how, exactly, should they have put the Waco situation, a local situation, by the way, not a national one, to vote? "Hey, people, should we force our way into the compound or not? Hurry up and vote wicked fuckin' quick!" No, their actions should have been predetermined by laws already voted on. If people don't like those laws, it is incumbent upon them to educate themselves and work to change the laws. Sounds to me like you don't really know just what democracy is, you're just looking for another way to rebel, and shaking your fist at whatever you think America stands for is the uber-metal way to do it. Lame lame and lame. Don't like "democracy", then jump a flight somewhere else. well said sir |
| _____________________________________ [Apr 20,2006 4:34pm - HailTheLeaf ""] NorwellBob_NLI said:How is "democracy" responsible for hunters wiping out the buffalo, well before they had the technology or understanding to predict their extinction or the subsequent effects? The U.S. government paid hunters to wipe them out in an attempt to starve the natives and drive them from their lands. Then they wiped out wolves...assholes. |
| ______________________________________________ [Apr 20,2006 6:04pm - BobNOMAAMRooney nli ""] STARVE DEM INJUNS GOOD |
| _____________________________________ [Apr 20,2006 6:22pm - Scoracrasia ""] HailTheLeaf said:NorwellBob_NLI said:How is "democracy" responsible for hunters wiping out the buffalo, well before they had the technology or understanding to predict their extinction or the subsequent effects? The U.S. government paid hunters to wipe them out in an attempt to starve the natives and drive them from their lands. Then they wiped out wolves...assholes. Hippy bullshit |
| _______________________________ [Apr 20,2006 8:50pm - eddie ""] HailTheLeaf said:The public was never asked if they wanted any of those things to happen, and the answer would've been "no", but they never asked, that's the problem. No citizens have ever gone to their government demanding war on another nation. wrong! spanish american war. |
| _______________________________ [Apr 20,2006 8:52pm - eddie ""] wait am i thinking of the right one? i'm going to have to look this up |
| __________________________________________ [Apr 21,2006 10:45am - NorwellBob_NLI ""] Not if Kevin Costner had anything to say about it. HailTheLeaf said:NorwellBob_NLI said:How is "democracy" responsible for hunters wiping out the buffalo, well before they had the technology or understanding to predict their extinction or the subsequent effects? The U.S. government paid hunters to wipe them out in an attempt to starve the natives and drive them from their lands. Then they wiped out wolves...assholes. |
| ___________________________________________ [Apr 21,2006 10:52am - davefromthegrave ""] HailTheLeaf said:NorwellBob_NLI said:How is "democracy" responsible for hunters wiping out the buffalo, well before they had the technology or understanding to predict their extinction or the subsequent effects? The U.S. government paid hunters to wipe them out in an attempt to starve the natives and drive them from their lands. Then they wiped out wolves...assholes. and that's why indians, buffalo, and wolves are all extinct today. |
| ____________________________________ [Apr 21,2006 11:08am - ShadowSD ""] All the problems listed by infoterror are situations where democracy didn't live up to its own name, and are all reasons for attempting to achieve a more pure democracy, not get away from one. |
| ____________________________________ [Apr 21,2006 11:12am - ShadowSD ""] Although things were different in the past, HailtheLeaf is absolutely right about war when it comes to every war post-WWII. Since then, Congress no longer does its constitutional duty of declaring war, and leaves those decisions to the President (un-democratic). Furthermore, all news media has since been linked, consolidated, and homogenized, making it much easier to put forth propoganda and much harder for the public to hear well articulated opposing viewpoints (also un-democratic). |
| ________________________________ [Apr 21,2006 11:41am - sever ""] davefromthegrave said:HailTheLeaf said:NorwellBob_NLI said:How is "democracy" responsible for hunters wiping out the buffalo, well before they had the technology or understanding to predict their extinction or the subsequent effects? The U.S. government paid hunters to wipe them out in an attempt to starve the natives and drive them from their lands. Then they wiped out wolves...assholes. and that's why indians, buffalo, and wolves are all extinct today. I dont know about being paid or killing wolves, but killing buffalo was very much so encouraged by the government and the general public. The natives had land, we believed it was our god-given right to take their land, so we did everything we could to drive them away or kill them. as for infoterror - that was the most moronic post you have made yet. america for one is a democracy only at very limited levels, and at any case, every government is at the will of its people. the people are the ones who give the government the power to rule over them. if the people stop giving them that power, the government is helpless. |
| ____________________________________________ [Apr 21,2006 2:54pm - Man_of_the_Century ""] HailTheLeaf said:I wasn't trying to make a connection, just pointing out that the public is never actually represnted in decisions, (like to go to war) in which an outcome that will favor people in power is possible over the will of the people they are supposed to be representing. Ever heard of congressmen and state reps? They are the people that represent the population. We vote for them to represent us. Sp the people are represented in some way. Yeah it has its flaws, but like we discussed in another thread, its impossible to set up a system that would allow all americans to vote on every bill. ShadowSD said:Although things were different in the past, HailtheLeaf is absolutely right about war when it comes to every war post-WWII. Since then, Congress no longer does its constitutional duty of declaring war, and leaves those decisions to the President (un-democratic). Furthermore, all news media has since been linked, consolidated, and homogenized, making it much easier to put forth propoganda and much harder for the public to hear well articulated opposing viewpoints (also un-democratic). Every time we go to war, congress was the one to declare it. I think there was one post WWII war that the president sent in troops before war was declared, but it was declared before the combat started (the official combat, there's always little spats before a war). |
| ______________________________________ [Apr 21,2006 2:58pm - the_reverend ""] as far as I know, they didn't declare korea. |
| ____________________________________________ [Apr 21,2006 3:00pm - Man_of_the_Century ""] That must have been that one I was thinking about... |
| ___________________________________ [Apr 21,2006 3:10pm - Dissector ""] HailTheLeaf said:The public was never asked if they wanted any of those things to happen, and the answer would've been "no", but they never asked, that's the problem. No citizens have ever gone to their government demanding war on another nation. I'd go to the government to demand war on another nation, no problem |
| ______________________________________ [Apr 21,2006 3:16pm - the_reverend ""] I would too cause the more non-whites that die, the higher my 401K goes. it's a weird ratio. like if one white is killed, my 401K goes down X. in order for that if to go back up, you need anywhere from 100 to 1000 non-whites too die. |
| _________________________________________ [Apr 21,2006 3:19pm - GoatOfCatalyst ""] democracy is a computer program invented by the jews |
| ___________________________________ [Apr 21,2006 3:28pm - ShadowSD ""] Man_of_the_Century said:Every time we go to war, congress was the one to declare it. I think there was one post WWII war that the president sent in troops before war was declared, but it was declared before the combat started (the official combat, there's always little spats before a war). Actually, the last time that Congress EVER declared war was World War II. |
| ____________________________________________ [Apr 21,2006 3:43pm - Man_of_the_Century ""] ShadowSD said:Actually, the last time that Congress EVER declared war was World War II. Damn technecalities... I went to check that and congress never officialy declared war since WWII. After WWII, Congress voluntarily gave up the right to declare war to the president, but the president still has to get approval from congress before deploying troops. |
| ______________________________________ [Apr 21,2006 3:45pm - the_reverend ""] that was the last declaration of war. but they did in fact vote to give bush the power to go to war in iraq and afghanistan. it wasn't a formal declaration of war, but it was a vote. |
| ____________________________________________ [Apr 21,2006 4:05pm - Man_of_the_Century ""] the_reverend said:that was the last declaration of war. but they did in fact vote to give bush the power to go to war in iraq and afghanistan. it wasn't a formal declaration of war, but it was a vote. Exactly... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States |
| ___________________________________ [Apr 21,2006 5:38pm - ShadowSD ""] That's true, there was a vote, but not an official declaration of war, which is the role of Congress according to the Constitution. What's the difference between an all out declaration of war and an incremental step like the authorization of military force, you ask? Well for one thing, Congress never would have been able to get away with formally declaring war on Iraq in 2003, because a debate so involved would have revealed the self-defeating nature of regime change in that country. The whole Iraq war was a carefully constructed PR campaign that built incrementally in order to avoid any real scrutiny, and that's why its marketing was successful. |
| ______________________________ [Apr 21,2006 5:54pm - CNV ""] Just put me in charge and I promise there will finally be world peace [img] Mo noids, mo problems |