Aryan Roots of Metal[views:19346][posts:24]____________________________________ [Jun 15,2005 5:34pm - infoterror ""] I often find myself in discussions with handwringing fucktards masquerading as "metalheads" from whom the mere mention of NSBM can induce feverish fits of moralistic posturing about "inclusivity," "tolerance" and other AIDS-laden liberal buzzwords. Typically, their arguments are rooted that metal developed from the blues (via rock), and thus metal "owes" it's existence to blacks. The ludicrous nature of this notion begs for rebuttal. The basic facts of metal's origins are simple enough. The genre was invented by four white lads from Birmingham, England who began recording in 1969 under the collective moniker "Black Sabbath." It's most significant innovators (Judas Priest, Venom, Slayer, Possessed, Burzum et al.) have all been white. These facts have proven inconvenient for the handwringers, who would like to see metal become their own private musical Rainbow Coalition. Thus, they are forced to let blacks in through the back door, so to speak, through the "metal as a form of the blues" argument. Unfortunately for the forces of tolerance and light, closer examination reveals this argument to be the proverbial load of shit. Metal emerged as a distinct genre precisely BECAUSE it broke free of the limitations of blues rock traditions. Sabbath abandoned the simplicity of blues arrangements and rejected the predictable tonality and chord progressions of the blues and previous rock music. Just as importantly, Sabbath eschewed the sex and relationship obsession characteristic of the blues and early rock in favor of a neo-classical and neo-Romantic preoccupation with creation, chaos and dissolution. In other words, Sabbath, far from owing its existence to "black music" and the blues, made its reputation through the systematic removal of black cultural elements from their sound and creating music grounded wholly in the Aryan tradition. http://bbs.anus.com/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001471 |
| _______________________________ [Jun 15,2005 5:36pm - dan. ""] my coworker, a long time clinical HIV nurse, has just confirmed that after reading this post i have in face, developed the most deadly case of HIV known to modern science. |
| ___________________________________ [Jun 15,2005 7:48pm - Al_Ravage ""] [img] That must be why Judas Priest covered "Johnny Be Goode"... it all makes sense now. Halford changed the lyrics, adding "Go Johnny!", in order to shape it to a more neoclassical and metaphysical rubric... which he... uh... invented 15 years earlier... while listening to the blues... um... me confused again No, seriously this argument... amongst being weak in other areas... suggests that you aren't even a very big Sabbath fan. If you were, you'd know that the bulk of their lyrics weren't even marginally gothic throughout their formative years...most of them broached traditional rock and roll themes i.e. sex and drugs. They didn't have noticably gothic or what you'd probably reffer to as "romantic" themes predominating the albums until the Dio years, and by then they were no longer seen as inovators... even within the genre. Keep tryin'. |
| ________________________________ [Jun 15,2005 7:55pm - Hooker ""] It's pretty pathetic that you give a shit one way or the other on where metal came from. Thanks for the history lesson though. I'm glad someone who was there helped me see the light. |
| ___________________________________ [Jun 15,2005 8:00pm - Al_Ravage ""] furthermore.... where's my bourbon!?! |
| __________________________________________ [Jun 15,2005 9:29pm - CarrotsandSticks ""] This thread would of meant more to me if I was racist. |
| ________________________________ [Jun 15,2005 9:35pm - Hooker ""] But dude, it's not racist. It's just proud of being white and stuff. You know. Pride. That awesome thing. That... uh... |
| ___________________________________ [Jun 15,2005 10:02pm - brian_dc ""] Hooker said:It's pretty pathetic that you give a shit one way or the other on where metal came from. Thanks for the history lesson though. I'm glad someone who was there helped me see the light. what he said. |
| _____________________________________ [Jun 15,2005 10:49pm - infoterror ""] I think if one assumes blacks invented the blues, pointing toward black artists seems to make sense. But if one has a broader historical view... |
| ___________________________________________ [Jun 15,2005 11:04pm - BestialOnslaught ""] Well, I agree with the concept that it's lame when people insist on citing Black culture's music as the sole source of Rock/Metal's roots, but race itself is an artificial construct and thus all music has really evolved across all sorts of ethnic groups and nations with much bastardization along the way. |
| ________________________________________ [Jun 15,2005 11:19pm - spinespliter ""] all i know is that GOD FORBID rules and those dudes are black except for the bass player. |
| ___________________________________________ [Jun 15,2005 11:43pm - DaveFromTheGrave ""] spinespliter said:all i know is that GOD FORBID rules and those dudes are black except for the bass player. I've met god Forbid and I love the people who they are, but I'm not much of a fan of their music. I am however totally into the music of Suffocation, and they fucking kick ass as people as well. |
| _______________________________ [Jun 15,2005 11:49pm - blue ""] oh my god i cant believe a conversation is coming out of this stupid, stupid thread. |
| __________________________________________________ [Jun 15,2005 11:59pm - my_pretentious_erection ""] yeah so i am starting a band called Eminent Pedophilia |
| ____________________________________ [Jun 16,2005 12:05am - Al_Ravage ""] Can't we all just agree that Jesus invented heavy metal? |
| ______________________________________ [Jun 16,2005 8:12am - GoatCatalyst ""] Anybody else thinking that Infoterror is just bummed cuz he gots a negro stepfather? |
| _______________________________________ [Jun 16,2005 8:19am - joe/notcommon ""] There is no race in art, music or otherwise. |
| _____________________________________ [Jun 16,2005 8:47am - __THeMoor__ ""] infoterror said:I think if one assumes blacks invented the blues, pointing toward black artists seems to make sense. But if one has a broader historical view... let me translate "i think if one assumes blacks invented the blues, pointing towards black artists seems to make sense because its true. but, if one is a racist and will look for any shred of evidence to support their mentally skewed picture about the way teh world is and about how, "whites are better than blacks" and blah blah blah, then you can pretty much see anything you want!" |
| _______________________________________ [Jun 16,2005 8:54am - joe/notcommon ""] Al_Ravage said:Can't we all just agree that Jesus invented heavy metal? Aren't you Jesus? |
| _______________________________________ [Jun 16,2005 10:46am - Jesus_Slaves ""] remember, jesus slaves |
| ___________________________________________ [Jun 16,2005 11:32am - king_of_the_mosh ""] if we wana go like that there would be no black people in american if it went then we brought themover 2 be slaves. but there would be no america without the british pilgrams.....so we got the brits 2 thank 4 metal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| ________________________________________ [Jun 16,2005 12:32pm - Messerschmitt ""] ^hahahahahaha |
| ______________________________________ [Jun 16,2005 8:17pm - th3rdknuckle ""] Can't let this BS stand... <Typically, their arguments are rooted that metal developed from the blues (via rock), and thus metal "owes" it's existence to blacks. The ludicrous nature of this notion begs for rebuttal.> Does Metal "owe" its existence to blacks? No. You're right, this a gross oversimplification; anyone who says this is a fucktard. But in your 'rebuttal', your racist mission to eliminate blacks from the development of metal by eliminating the blues music in it's history is ludicrous. The role of the blues in the development of Metal is well-documented; it's all recorded to see and hear; it didn't happen that long ago. Did Metal develop from the Blues? Yes, it did. Anyone who knows anything about music history knows that. Those of us who experienced some of the era can speak to it with some authority. At first glance, you seem to write like you know your stuff, but you're so far off base with so much of your 'thesis' that it's clear your sense of history is revisionist, and your playing up/'adjusting' certain facts, while blatantly diregarding others, (to speak nothing of your total fabrications) is intellectually disingenuous. In other words, you're full o'shyte. <The basic facts of metal's origins are simple enough. The genre was invented by four white lads from Birmingham, England who began recording in 1969 under the collective moniker "Black Sabbath."> Ridiculous. Again, anyone with any serious knowledge of music knows that no one ever 'invented' anything in music. Music develops; it evolves. New forms mutate out of old ones. Sabbath never sat down in their practice room one night and 'invented' Heavy Metal. By the way, they actually began recording in 1968 under the collective monik "Earth", which every member of that band will tell you was a blues band. And there is fairly straight blues music, as well as jazz, to be found in abundance throughout Sabbath's 1st lp. 'Warning' is a blues. 'Wicked World', their cover of 'Evil Woman'... 'N.I.B' is built around a standard blues progression. Absolutely, they added their own sonic and thematic elements; raw volume and agressive vibe, etc etc. But this is 'adding elements to an already-established genre'; this is how music develops and evolves. This is NOT 'invention', and no one can precisely pinpoint the one band that 'invented' any genre or style. <Metal emerged as a distinct genre precisely BECAUSE it broke free of the limitations of blues rock traditions.> This statement by itself is true, but it should be noted that it did so while retaining much of the framework, modes, and structure of the music it evolved from. <Sabbath abandoned the simplicity of blues arrangements and rejected the predictable tonality and chord progressions of the blues and previous rock music.> When did they 'abandon' this? There are blues-based songs, progressions, scales, riifs and solos ALL OVER the Ozzy-era Sabbath records. This is just blatantly wrong! <Just as importantly, Sabbath eschewed the sex and relationship obsession characteristic of the blues and early rock in favor of a neo-classical and neo-Romantic preoccupation with creation, chaos and dissolution.> True, lyrically... This is one place where they deviated from the established blues/rock model... But this is not 'invention', nor is it a 'rejection' of anything previous. It's change, innovation, mutation, development. The Doors did the same thing, writing about incest, suicide, drugs, Vietnam, politics, etc. during the happy-faced Flower Power era. Music was evolving along with popular culture. <In other words, Sabbath, far from owing its existence to "black music" and the blues, made its reputation through the systematic removal of black cultural elements from their sound and creating music grounded wholly in the Aryan tradition.> Now you're wrapping up by spewing dangerous absolutes. 'Systematic removal'? 'Grounded wholly in the Aryan tradition'? What does this even mean? Show me a Sabbath album that does NOT contain a blues scale, a blues progression, and any relationship-based lyrics, and I'll concede. You work hard to paint a picture of 4 white guys working together to invent a new form of music that is consciously devoid of any blues (and therefore, black) elements. 4 guys setting out to distance their music as far away from blues and jazz as possible... If that's the case, they failed monumentally. As have you. Your attempt to twist both Metal's history and Black Sabbath's legacy into something that fits your racist views is just plain silly. I'm betting those lads from Birmingham would tell you the same. |
| ___________________________________________ [Jun 16,2005 10:27pm - BestialOnslaught ""] Great response th3rdknuckle, but I'm afraid infoterror/SR Prozak writes a lot of pseudo-intellectual theories on Metal for the sake of baiting people on message boards and you'll not likely get a serious response out of him. |
| _______________________________________ [Jun 16,2005 10:36pm - th3rdknuckle ""] thanks, not looking for a response. i figured this guy gets his jollies trying to rile people... just couldn't let that sit without countering it, in case someone read it and bought any of it. |