Obama orders 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan[views:13544][posts:89]________________________________ [Dec 1,2009 10:30pm - zyklon ""] http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_us_afghanistan |
| _______________________________________ [Dec 1,2009 10:36pm - thuringwethil ""] that's news. |
| ____________________________________________ [Dec 1,2009 10:38pm - My Dying Michelle ""] I knew that when I voted for him. |
| ________________________________ [Dec 1,2009 10:38pm - zyklon ""] We should be out of that country if you ask me |
| _______________________________________ [Dec 1,2009 10:51pm - thuringwethil ""] Taliban didn't seem to bother us too much during the 90's. |
| ________________________________ [Dec 1,2009 11:24pm - zyklon ""] [img] |
| __________________________________ [Dec 1,2009 11:28pm - Archaeon ""] ugh. |
| ____________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 12:22am - o-bush-ma ""] whata douche |
| ________________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 9:58am - TheRidersofDoom ""] like George Washington said, keep out of foreign entanglements, engage in trade, not treaty, war, and nation building and like Jefferson said, liberty at home can never be supported by our support of tyranny abroad, in fact, we lose it when we engage in wars on foreign shores. |
| _______________________________ [Dec 2,2009 10:10am - aril ""] all we want is to control the opium market and make way for the giant pipeline that's about to be built? Men in caves? Give me a fucking break. Before someone slams me again for stating these "conspiracies" I suggest you do the research on the ties the CIA has with drug trafficking. I made a thread about the presidents brother not too long ago... |
| ___________________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 10:13am - FuckIsMySignature ""] AMURIKA FUCK YA |
| ___________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 10:15am - mattkings ""] They are after the Talibans lucky charms amirite guys! |
| _______________________________ [Dec 2,2009 10:17am - aril ""] Yesterday I had the most recommended comment on Boston.com regarding the increase in troops lol. Surprisingly my comment about opium made it in the top 10 too. It's good to see some people waking up |
| _________________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 10:20am - metal_church101 ""] Opium always wakes you up. |
| _______________________________ [Dec 2,2009 10:22am - aril ""] Trolling Boston.com is awesome. |
| __________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 10:24am - ShadowSD ""] Nobody remembered to mention the bigger news... We are beginning withdrawal from Afghanistan in eighteen months, and explicitly committing not to occupy their country (or any country ever - in the speech last night, Obama actually went that far, I never thought I'd hear a US President say that). It's the difference between tactics and strategy. Going into Iraq was bad strategy because it was a lie and pointless. Not having enough troops was a bad tactic Bush purposefully used to set up an indefinite stalemate and build what he intended to be permanent bases to occupy the country and it's oil fields. Putting in more troops was a good tactic attempted when the whole thing really started to implode, but it still failed to justify the bad strategy. Obama's strategy seems to be the opposite of Bush, and if he's using a good tactic to achieve a good strategy - a good strategy being getting the fuck out of occupying other countries - it's a good thing. Just my two cents. After all, if Bush was elected, or McCain, we'd be in both countries FOREVER, probably even if Hillary had been elected. We might even be starting shit with Iran right now. The MIC is out of fucking control, and I'm more worried that Obama won't have time to gut it sufficiently in time for the next guy in seven years not to just pick up where Bush left off. |
| _______________________________ [Dec 2,2009 10:34am - aril ""] 18 months? Wasn't it 3 years? This is the vietnam of our generation. |
| __________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 10:35am - ShadowSD ""] Nope, July 2011 is when we begin withdrawing. Did you miss the speech last night? |
| _________________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 10:38am - TheRidersofDoom ""] ShadowSD said:Nope, July 2011 is when we begin withdrawing. Did you miss the speech last night? write that date down there lil' johnny, and I bet you a 100 that the country will forget or something big will go down and it will get pushed back. |
| _____________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 10:43am - RyanPlegics ""] aril said:18 months? Wasn't it 3 years? This is the vietnam of our generation. Then I think we've got several more presidential terms to sit through before we see an end to this. |
| __________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 10:46am - ShadowSD ""] We are currently on or ahead of schedule on Iraq withdrawal. We were supposed to be out of all Iraqi cities by June 30 of this year and we beat the deadline by a few days. All combat troops are scheduled to be out of Iraq by the end of next summer, and all residual US troops are scheduled out by the end of 2011; those deadlines haven't shifted yet since Obama announced them after taking office. Bush's deadlines ALWAYS shifted, because he never intended to leave. Proof that intent makes all the difference in the world. |
| _____________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 10:47am - RyanPlegics ""] Why do we need deadlines? Why not just do it? |
| ________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 10:48am - zyklon ""] I hope he succeeds |
| _________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 10:55am - Martins ""] Bush is the enemy! |
| __________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 11:05am - ShadowSD ""] The bottom line is one's view on occupation. One on extreme end you have those in the government who are fundamentally for it so the world can be Exxon's bitch - neocons - like Bush, Cheney, McCain, Romney, Lieberman, Palin - just about every Republican in office but Ron Paul, really. On the other end, you have anti-neocons, people who believe that foreign occupation is inherently self-destructive and wrong; amazingly, despite the fact that this point of view is common sense, not to mention the view of Washington and Jefferson, we have very few people in government that fit this category - fortunately, by some incredible stroke of luck, our President is one of them. He wants the philosophy of neoconservativism disembowled and destroyed in the long-term, as evidenced by these parts of the speech last night, COMPLETELY unprecedented in history for a US President to say: "The people of Afghanistan have endured violence for decades. They have been confronted with occupation – by the Soviet Union, and then by foreign al Qaeda fighters who used Afghan land for their own purposes. So tonight, I want the Afghan people to understand – America seeks an end to this era of war and suffering. We have no interest in occupying your country. We will support efforts by the Afghan government to open the door to those Taliban who abandon violence and respect the human rights of their fellow citizens. And we will seek a partnership with Afghanistan grounded in mutual respect – to isolate those who destroy; to strengthen those who build; to hasten the day when our troops will leave; and to forge a lasting friendship in which America is your partner, and never your patron." But that was just the beginning, at the end he came back to the topic, and it became the crescendo of his speech: "Our union was founded in resistance to oppression. We do not seek to occupy other nations. We will not claim another nation’s resources or target other peoples because their faith or ethnicity is different from ours. What we have fought for – and what we continue to fight for – is a better future for our children and grandchildren, and we believe that their lives will be better if other peoples’ children and grandchildren can live in freedom and access opportunity." Bush would NEVER have used the word occupation to describe anything the US or its allies might do; indeed, I can't think of a modern US President that would speak in those terms, let alone take a stand against them. Speeches to the military are usually jingoistic and full of slogans, and making a point of saying this to a military audience on national television is a clear attempt to argue neoconservatism out of the bones of our institutions almost by force of will and common sense. People who think this guy is a neocon are not paying attention. |
| __________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 11:16am - ShadowSD ""] RyanPlegics said:Why do we need deadlines? Why not just do it? This is an important question. Aril brought up Vietnam before. However, our withdrawal from Vietnam was a disaster and a mess; now, Vietnam was a stupid strategic blunder from the beginning, which is the most imporant point, and we had to get out of there, but the way in which we did was also poorly executed. Look at Iraq right now; while violence has certainly not disappeared entirely, the slow and methodical withdrawal from the country is creating a stability level we didn't have as were rushing out of Vietnam. As anyone who has served in the past can tell you (including some very anti-war people, think the founder of dailykos, Markos Moulitsas), removing more than a brigade or two a month is simply not logistically feasible, unless you want a train wreck. Given all the vets who made that argument while still fervently opposing the Iraq War and wanting us out, I tend to think it's credible. |
| _________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 11:17am - Martins ""] What's your opinion on metal music theory? |
| _______________________________ [Dec 2,2009 11:21am - aril ""] How about the Gulf of Tonkin incident being declassified and prooved to be a fake? It was used as a pretext for the Vietnam war. How come this doesn't anger people? |
| _______________________________ [Dec 2,2009 11:22am - aril ""] I wish I could type more and/or correctly on my phone. |
| ___________________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 11:22am - FuckIsMySignature ""] pandering |
| __________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 11:24am - ShadowSD ""] Martins said:What's your opinion on metal music theory? Ha ha ha |
| _________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 11:27am - Martins ""] <3 I just had nothing to say on this topic. Not informed enough. |
| __________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 11:38am - ShadowSD ""] Oh, thought you were busting on me for rambling too much in that other thread, heh. |
| _________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 11:40am - Martins ""] Yes, yes I was. lol |
| __________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 11:41am - ShadowSD ""] FuckIsMySignature said:pandering Polls show most people in this country oppose the escalation in Afghanistan, so pandering to them would have been to say we're getting all our troops out now with no escalation. |
| __________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 11:43am - ShadowSD ""] zyklon said:I hope he succeeds Me too. |
| _______________________________________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 11:43am - martins the uninformed useless troll ""] Hi guys. Haha This thread is funny. guys, stop it. Haha Im so funny. |
| _________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 11:47am - Martins ""] misspelled gauyz |
| _______________________________ [Dec 2,2009 11:55am - aril ""] I hope people realize Obama is puppet. |
| _________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 11:57am - corpus ""] "YES WE CAN!" |
| _______________________________ [Dec 2,2009 12:10pm - aril ""] Regardless of why the reasons are or how many troops are there, repecting our troops is priority number one. They are dying out there. What I don't like to see is my friends going back there after 3-4 times. If we are going to have wars like these, reinstate the draft. |
| ___________________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 12:16pm - FuckIsMySignature ""] aril said:I hope people realize Obama is muppet. fixed [img] |
| _____________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 12:18pm - RyanPlegics ""] [img] I think the draft is worse than the 3-4 return trips. Why send people who don't want to go at all? At least the 3-4 timers were okay with it at least once. |
| ________________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 12:19pm - DestroyYouAlot ""] ShadowSD said: RyanPlegics said:Why do we need deadlines? Why not just do it? This is an important question. Aril brought up Vietnam before. However, our withdrawal from Vietnam was a disaster and a mess; now, Vietnam was a stupid strategic blunder from the beginning, which is the most imporant point, and we had to get out of there, but the way in which we did was also poorly executed. Look at Iraq right now; while violence has certainly not disappeared entirely, the slow and methodical withdrawal from the country is creating a stability level we didn't have as were rushing out of Vietnam. As anyone who has served in the past can tell you (including some very anti-war people, think the founder of dailykos, Markos Moulitsas), removing more than a brigade or two a month is simply not logistically feasible, unless you want a train wreck. Given all the vets who made that argument while still fervently opposing the Iraq War and wanting us out, I tend to think it's credible. This is an important point. I'm going to use anal sex to illustrate why. Picture us all up in Afghanistan's guts, only Afghanistan is a young college co-ed, or possibly one of Ryan's nuns. You're all in there, pumping away, and they're all like, "Ok big daddy, that's enough, it was cool at first but it's starting to hurt." Now, you can do this one of two ways. You can ease on out, or you can just whip it out. But if you whip it out, you know what you get? THE PINK SOCK. I hope this has been educational. (I'm just glad I'm finally able to use my extensive personal research on both military history and porn in the same argument.) |
| _____________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 12:23pm - RyanPlegics ""] I'm just glad someone successfully found a way of introducing the pink sock into a conversation that was actually relevant. Good one, sir. |
| _______________________________ [Dec 2,2009 12:25pm - aril ""] RyanPlegics said:[img] I think the draft is worse than the 3-4 return trips. Why send people who don't want to go at all? At least the 3-4 timers were okay with it at least once. because maybe our country would support it when it affects each and every citizen. But we are too busy caring about Paris Hilton and or Jon and Kate plus 8. We shouldn't be there in the first place, but if we fight wars you have to have your country backing it. We are simply occupying the country with troops that have pts disorder and no morale. |
| _______________________________ [Dec 2,2009 12:26pm - aril ""] The only time dya has been serious on this board is his open letter to a douche thread. |
| _____________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 12:31pm - RyanPlegics ""] aril said: RyanPlegics said: I think the draft is worse than the 3-4 return trips. Why send people who don't want to go at all? At least the 3-4 timers were okay with it at least once. because maybe our country would support it when it affects each and every citizen. But we are too busy caring about Paris Hilton and or Jon and Kate plus 8. We shouldn't be there in the first place, but if we fight wars you have to have your country backing it. We are simply occupying the country with troops that have pts disorder and no morale. Being forced to fight wouldn't win my support. Our country shouldn't start wars the people don't support. |
| ___________________________________________ [Dec 2,2009 12:39pm - FuckIsMySignature ""] thank you dya for introducing me to the pink sock dillema |
| _____________________________ [Dec 2,2009 12:45pm - pam ""] Everyone can say we don't belong there until they're dead, the fact remains that Bush Jr got us into a fucking mess we can't just say "fuck ya'll" and walk away from. I have no bloody idea how to fix the problem or if it's even possible but I do know we knocked down two fucking countries and it's now our mess to clean up. I would say give Obama a chance to try his plan but I know asking that on RTTP is pointless. Carry on! |