So...why are you guys still paying for gas?[views:13953][posts:72]______________________________________________ [May 12,2007 12:32am - i_am_not_logged_in ""] Iluvufreebeer said:hungtableed said:We pay for gas because we actually have lives and have to be places and right now, that's our only option - unless you want to buy one of them bio-hazard-battery run hybrids....that still need gas.... Sorry we are not yet transient-anti-capitalistic hippies like we apparently should be. I am pretty sure everyone reading this has a life. To my knowledge, it's rather impossible for your brain to process written word when you are dead. But who am I? I'm just intelligent. Cars are not necessary . They were not necessary to get from Point A to Point B 200 years ago. What changes that fact now? You perceive that you need a car, and so you go buy one. Meanwhile those of us who are financially progressive do not spend thousands of dollars a year on steel coffins, and we've come to realize we can get from Point A to Point B using a wonderful evolutionary gift called: legs. If I really needed to get somewhere far, I can take the bus, and manage to save a lot more money than you will in your car that you waste thousands of dollars on annually. Do not bother debating me on this subject. I'm too close minded to allow your argument to have any sway. Just go continue being lazy. Buses aren't an option for everyone. Not everywhere has buses that run through. And it takes FAR too long to walk to places. |
| ______________________________________ [May 12,2007 12:18pm - HailTheLeaf ""] Okay. Right.. said:HailTheLeaf said: Brazil has been running cars on ethanol since the 80's so tell them it's not possible. I just said that Brazil accomplishes this because THEY GROW SUGAR CANE. And they grow a LOT of it. Sugar is the only crop that will yield a positive energy gain. We cannot grow sugar in any mass quantities in this country like they do in Brazil. Notice how Brazil is closer to the equator than we are. They have a more tropical climate than us. They can grow tropical crops like sugar cane. To get any quantity of sugar shipped to the US is VERY expensive. This is the reason we use corn syrup (NOT SUGAR) in our soft drinks. Also you can go figure out on your own the difference of population per square mile in Brazil and here. HailTheLeaf said:GM made great electric cars in the early 90's, then junked them all so they could sell us Hummers instead, that worked out well for them eh? I JUST said that battery technology is continually getting better. The EARLY 90'S (!!!!) large batteries sucked a lot more than they do now. Their max capacity degraded much quicker (not to mention their max capacity were much lower) than the lead-acid, NiCd, nickel metal hydride, lithium ion, and Li-ion polymer batteries we use today. HailTheLeaf said:They're just ideas, some work, others I donno. No. None of these work on a large scale to replace gas, except for maybe using hydrogen as storage of energy if battery technology does not advance. But extracting hydrogen is expensive. Shipping and storing hydrogen is expensive. Biproducts from extracting it from natural gases are very bad. If you are going to use electricity to get hydrogen from water (which will be turned back into water when used in your fuel cell car) is wasting a lot of energy compared to just storing the energy in a battery. You might as well go down to the store, buy 4 bags of coal, light 3 of them on fire and use the last bag to power your car. Using shit like peanut/vegatable oil has the same arguments of E85. We do not have enough land in this country to grow that much energy. Not to mention these are horribly less efficient than using ethanol. * soybean plants requires 27 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced, and * sunflower plants requires 118 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced. Awesome, I bet you love senselessly lighting coal on fire for no gain. HailTheLeaf said: Fuck nuclear power. Why fuck nuclear power? Because you're afraid of something you don't understand it? THAT'S NOT HYPOCRITICAL AT ALL. Because it doesn't releases any greenhouse gases or other air pollutants unlike all your other proposed ideas (while using electricity from coal)? I'm quite aware of Brazil's sugar cane production, we grow it too, down south. We could easily inport more at a lower cost if the cost of sugar here weren't artifically high due to import quotas and tariffs. High fructose corn syrup is even worse for you to consume than sugar, and I'd love to know why they think it's nessecsary to put it in things like ketchup. At any rate, I'm sure we could have plenty of farmers grow sugar cane instead of corn and produce enough ethenol to run a % of cars on it. The electric cars in the early 90's worked very well, large battery or not. If GM didn't have their heads up their ass I'm sure the batteries would be even smaller and go farther now...you could charge your car with solar panels on your garage so I'd love to know why none are being produced...yet I still see ads for Hummers. Veggie oil is already being produced in mass quantities here, for your FOOD, the fuel you'd be using is USED veggie oil, it's being recycled...there's no extra production needed, it's disposed of at millions of resturants everyday, so there is no extra fossil fuel being used to produce it. If communities grew their own food locally and produced soybean oil in self-sufficient plants, then no fossil fuels would be used. Nuclear power creates nuclear waste, which there is no way to dispose of, if you'd like to keep it at your house, go ahead, I'd rather get energy from free sources that produce no toxic waste and aren't going to kill me, like the sun and wind. You can't have a solar accident or a wind meltdown..and why the fuck do I want to pay someone else a bill every month for electricity I can have for free? |
| ______________________________________ [May 12,2007 12:22pm - HailTheLeaf ""] ...and of course we could grow enough hemp to fuel even more cars, and for food, clothing, plastics, construction materials...and several thousand other things. |
| _________________________________________________________ [May 12,2007 12:34pm - ArrowHead is logged in... NOT ""] HailTheLeaf said:...and of course we could grow enough hemp to fuel even more cars, and for food, clothing, plastics, construction materials...and several thousand other things. Yeah, because while fossil fuels are limited and dwindling resource, Farmable soil is infinite and we can grow as much of anything we want without ever diminishing it. You're a fucking idiot. I can't believe how annoyed I get every time I read one of your stupid hippy bullshit threads. Yeah, Fuel prices are going up. So, if you hadn't noticed, is the price of tomatoes. Using farmable resources as a substitute for gasoline, especially on a large enough scale to actually cut down the U.S. consumption of fossil fuels, would destroy our agricultural infrastructure. You fucking hippy retards tend to look at an issue, and just focus on one little part of it. You then love to proclaim about how you, in your hippy genius, have found a solution to that small part of the problem, regardless of it's consequence or full scope. Why not just go back to growing out your armpit hair and refusing to wear a bra, hippy. |
| _________________________________________________________ [May 12,2007 12:48pm - ArrowHead is logged in... NOT ""] HailTheLeaf said: They're just ideas, some work, others I donno. Brazil has been running cars on ethanol since the 80's so tell them it's not possible. [/QUTOE] 1) Brazil does not require mass transport like we do, simply due to the far smaller size of their geography. 2) There's far less cars in brazil, especially since a good 90% of their population is now here in the U.S.A. working at McDonalds. GM made great electric cars in the early 90's, then junked them all so they could sell us Hummers instead, that worked out well for them eh? Fuck nuclear power. They probably scrapped them because not many people had a spare 12 hours to charge their car just to be able to commute to work for 3 days. Also, your assumption that solar panels on the top of your garage would be enough to charge an automobile? My neighbors have panels covering their entire HOUSE, and it provides exactly enough power to run their washing machine and dryer. Yeah, that's right: Thousands of dollars worth of solar paneling to get some free laundry. Yup, my neighbors are dumb hippies too. You should meet them sometime, you'd get along great. |
| _________________________________________________________ [May 12,2007 12:48pm - ArrowHead is logged in... NOT ""] I suck at teh quoting |
| ________________________________________ [May 12,2007 1:14pm - Okay. Right.. ""] HailTheLeaf said: I'm quite aware of Brazil's sugar cane production, we grow it too, down south. We could easily inport more at a lower cost if the cost of sugar here weren't artifically high due to import quotas and tariffs. High fructose corn syrup is even worse for you to consume than sugar, and I'd love to know why they think it's nessecsary to put it in things like ketchup. At any rate, I'm sure we could have plenty of farmers grow sugar cane instead of corn and produce enough ethenol to run a % of cars on it. Yes the problem would be solved if we burnt all of Brazil's land, killed all the people (they make wonderful fertilizer) and had it grow sugar. But guess what? I don't think Brazil would approve. Sugar cane is a tropical crop meaning it need high temperatures and high moisture. 90% of the United States does not have these conditions and certainly not most of our current farm land. Even if we converted all our land possible to growing sugar, we wouldn't have nearly enough. You cannot fucking just grow sugar where we're growing corn. You try growing sugar in your back yard and find out why. Low or no tariffs isn't going to solve the issue either. They would never ship us enough sugar for any energy solution. I advice you to take macro economics 101 to find out why Brazil isn't completely as mentally handicapped as you are. The prices aren't high to fuck you over using ethanol, they're high because of supply and demand. Who cares what you think; the prices are high and thats the reality. And how the fuck does what is healthier to eat have any relevance to this at all? I guess hippies just love to throw bullshit facts to get your attention away from the real issue. The electric cars in the early 90's worked very well, large battery or not. If GM didn't have their heads up their ass I'm sure the batteries would be even smaller and go farther now...you could charge your car with solar panels on your garage so I'd love to know why none are being produced...yet I still see ads for Hummers. GM is a company. Companies want to make profit. There was infinitely more profit in gas cars especially since there was already the established infrastructure for it. We do not have an infrastructure for electric cars. Gas prices were not insanely high in the early 90's. Many homes were converting from electric to oil heating back then because it was much cheaper. Veggie oil is already being produced in mass quantities here, for your FOOD, the fuel you'd be using is USED veggie oil, it's being recycled...there's no extra production needed, it's disposed of at millions of resturants everyday, so there is no extra fossil fuel being used to produce it. If communities grew their own food locally and produced soybean oil in self-sufficient plants, then no fossil fuels would be used. Define mass quantities. They're not nearly massive enough to run cars on. Maybe yours and the 5% of shitty cars hippies drive around in, but not most. Imagine if 20, 50, or 100 more people you knew were going to mcdonalds to get their fucking french fry fuel. They would be out every time you went there. There is simply not enough fucking land in this country to grow enough soybeans to power cars. You can grow some in your farm but not every American has a goddamn farm with no job. This point of your also exposes how you EITHER CANNOT READ OR BLATANTLY IGNORE RELEVENT FACTS. I said before: * soybean plants requires 27 percent more fossil energy than the fuel produced You cannot fucking shove raw soybeans into your fucking car. Nuclear power creates nuclear waste, which there is no way to dispose of, if you'd like to keep it at your house, go ahead, I'd rather get energy from free sources that produce no toxic waste and aren't going to kill me, like the sun and wind. Nuclear waste can be reprocessed (this is banned in the United States because everyone hates nuclear). However the technology on this is still in its infacy. Nuclear waste can be ejected from our planet rather easily unlike any waste product from other methods. Nuclear waste does not endanger the entire planet from global warmer unlike waste products from other methods. You can't have a solar accident or a wind meltdown..and why the fuck do I want to pay someone else a bill every month for electricity I can have for free? You're not going to have a nuclear meltdown unless you are idiotic enough to disable all of the hundreds of safety measures in a power plant to test some experiemental bullshit like they did in Chernobyl. Modern power plants are shielded against a fucking 747 plane flying directly into it. Solar panels produce very very hazardous material while manufacturing. And when the next generation of solar panels come out in 2 years that are twice as efficient (requiring half the surface area) the old ones have to be disposed of property since they too have hazardous materials in them. By no means is this a "clean" energy source. Last time I checked solar panels or wind turbines were definitely not free. "...an article on backyard windmills and their growing feasibility. With the lowest model's price tag, it's about $9,000 and lasts for around 100,000 kilowatt-hours (20 year life), which results in 9 cents per kilowatt-hour. I don't imagine many Americans have $8k-$11k laying around and the current month's rates for energy in my neighborhood are 2.2 cents/kWh for the first 800 kWh and 1.2 cents/kWh after." The more windmills you put up in one place the less efficient they get. You can't just start jamming windmills everywhere on the planet. They take the energy from the wind thus they will slow down the wind most notably if there are many many windmills in one area. This is not a complete solution but is one of our best (too many of these are not going to stop wind). Hippies also don't like these because they kill birds, which is true but retarded. If you are proposing to covering up 1/3 of the land in the United States with black solar panels and huge windmills, then all the power to you. Please note that A LOT of plants and animals would die. But hippies are always ALWAYS hypocrites who lack any scientific understanding. |
| ________________________________________ [May 12,2007 1:28pm - Okay. Right.. ""] ArrowHead is logged in... NOT said:HailTheLeaf said:...and of course we could grow enough hemp to fuel even more cars, and for food, clothing, plastics, construction materials...and several thousand other things. Yeah, because while fossil fuels are limited and dwindling resource, Farmable soil is infinite and we can grow as much of anything we want without ever diminishing it. This is exactly right not to mention growing hemp would be an incredible waste of resources. We might as well nuke half of our farmland and have useful crops grow on the other half. Good idea. You will also not get any positive energy out of this - much less than soybeans. You might as well go to the store and buy big bags of coal, throw them on the street, and burn them. |
| _____________________________________ [May 12,2007 1:28pm - horror_tang ""] I will continue to use gasoline in my car. In fact, I think I'll go out and get an SUV or something that uses even more gas. I hope I can do my part to make the movie Mad Max a reality. |
| _____________________________________ [May 12,2007 1:31pm - xanonymousx ""] have fun when $20 doesn't even give you a half a tank... i'm happy with my four cylinder stang. |
| ________________________________________ [May 12,2007 1:34pm - Okay. Right.. ""] horror tang is my dad. |
| _____________________________________ [May 12,2007 3:50pm - horror_tang ""] [img] |
| ______________________________________ [May 13,2007 11:02am - HailTheLeaf ""] ArrowHead is logged in... NOT said:HailTheLeaf said:...and of course we could grow enough hemp to fuel even more cars, and for food, clothing, plastics, construction materials...and several thousand other things. Yeah, because while fossil fuels are limited and dwindling resource, Farmable soil is infinite and we can grow as much of anything we want without ever diminishing it. You're a fucking idiot. I can't believe how annoyed I get every time I read one of your stupid hippy bullshit threads. Yeah, Fuel prices are going up. So, if you hadn't noticed, is the price of tomatoes. Using farmable resources as a substitute for gasoline, especially on a large enough scale to actually cut down the U.S. consumption of fossil fuels, would destroy our agricultural infrastructure. You fucking hippy retards tend to look at an issue, and just focus on one little part of it. You then love to proclaim about how you, in your hippy genius, have found a solution to that small part of the problem, regardless of it's consequence or full scope. Why not just go back to growing out your armpit hair and refusing to wear a bra, hippy. Ever heard of crop rotation? So what's your fucking solution? |
| ___________________________________________ [May 13,2007 11:30am - DaveFromTheGrave ""] ArrowHead is logged in... NOT said:HailTheLeaf said:...and of course we could grow enough hemp to fuel even more cars, and for food, clothing, plastics, construction materials...and several thousand other things. Yeah, because while fossil fuels are limited and dwindling resource, Farmable soil is infinite and we can grow as much of anything we want without ever diminishing it. You're a fucking idiot. I can't believe how annoyed I get every time I read one of your stupid hippy bullshit threads. Yeah, Fuel prices are going up. So, if you hadn't noticed, is the price of tomatoes. Using farmable resources as a substitute for gasoline, especially on a large enough scale to actually cut down the U.S. consumption of fossil fuels, would destroy our agricultural infrastructure. You fucking hippy retards tend to look at an issue, and just focus on one little part of it. You then love to proclaim about how you, in your hippy genius, have found a solution to that small part of the problem, regardless of it's consequence or full scope. Why not just go back to growing out your armpit hair and refusing to wear a bra, hippy. they should build a car that runs on armpit hair |
| ___________________________________ [May 13,2007 12:07pm - Niccolai ""] HailTheLeaf said:ArrowHead is logged in... NOT said:HailTheLeaf said:...and of course we could grow enough hemp to fuel even more cars, and for food, clothing, plastics, construction materials...and several thousand other things. Yeah, because while fossil fuels are limited and dwindling resource, Farmable soil is infinite and we can grow as much of anything we want without ever diminishing it. You're a fucking idiot. I can't believe how annoyed I get every time I read one of your stupid hippy bullshit threads. Yeah, Fuel prices are going up. So, if you hadn't noticed, is the price of tomatoes. Using farmable resources as a substitute for gasoline, especially on a large enough scale to actually cut down the U.S. consumption of fossil fuels, would destroy our agricultural infrastructure. You fucking hippy retards tend to look at an issue, and just focus on one little part of it. You then love to proclaim about how you, in your hippy genius, have found a solution to that small part of the problem, regardless of it's consequence or full scope. Why not just go back to growing out your armpit hair and refusing to wear a bra, hippy. Ever heard of crop rotation? So what's your fucking solution? Crop rotation is in groups of three or four. If you used the ENTIRE united states as a field, you would only be able to grow on a third or fourth of it at a time... which would still would not relieve us of fossil fuel dependancy. |
| ______________________________________ [May 14,2007 12:37pm - HailAtWork ""] They should build a car that runs on conservatives who are quick to criticize, but offer no viable solutions of their own and resort to name calling when they have no argument. I'm not a hippy, I wasn't alive in the 60's, and as far as I know I haven't taken part in a large cutural movement that changed history and expanded freedom for the country. I can't stand the Grateful Dead, I've never followed fish around. I'm a metalhead, and you're an idiot, but I'll take the complement. |
| __________________________________________ [May 14,2007 1:23pm - thegreatspaldino ""] the old mercedes diesel cars are reliable as hell. i probably would have done this by now if i wasnt addicted to turbocharged gas powered light weight sports cars and wagons that only run on gas |
| __________________________________ [May 14,2007 1:25pm - Niccolai ""] HailAtWork said:They should build a car that runs on conservatives who are quick to criticize, but offer no viable solutions of their own and resort to name calling when they have no argument. I'm not a hippy, I wasn't alive in the 60's, and as far as I know I haven't taken part in a large cutural movement that changed history and expanded freedom for the country. I can't stand the Grateful Dead, I've never followed fish around. I'm a metalhead, and you're an idiot, but I'll take the complement. If you're talking about me, I'll cut you with my razor. |
| __________________________________ [May 14,2007 1:25pm - Niccolai ""] thegreatspaldino said: i probably would have done this by now if i wasnt addicted to turbocharged gas powered light weight sports cars and wagons that only run on gas twin turbo FTW. |
| ________________________________________________________ [May 14,2007 1:29pm - ArrowHead is logged in... NOT ""] HailTheLeaf said: Ever heard of crop rotation? So what's your fucking solution? Crop rotation extends the life of farmable soil, it does not make it last forever. The basic idea is that after one set of crops uses up nutrients in the soil, you swap it for another crop rich in different nutrients to allow the soil time to regenerate. Also, Theres more to it than the soil itself. With the silly storms we've been having, it's very likely that one bad hurricane or set of twisters could halt gas production entirely under your plan, leaving people with far higher gas prices than we have now using fossil fuels. Again, I urge you to go look at the price of tomatoes. As for my own solution? I don't pretend to have one, like you do. Everything I'VE thought of I thought through ALL the WAY, and realized it wouldn't work. Something that, perhaps, you should try before posting your bullshit theories in a thread like this. People might laugh at you a little less, and stop calling you a hippy. |
| ________________________________________________________ [May 14,2007 1:31pm - ArrowHead is logged in... NOT ""] Just kidding, by the way. I'll never stop laughing at you and calling you a hippy. |
| _________________________________________ [May 14,2007 1:38pm - SoulsOfTheSlain ""] HailAtWork said:They should build a car that runs on conservatives who are quick to criticize, but offer no viable solutions of their own and resort to name calling when they have no argument. SCIENCE??? WHATS THAT? said:The only real solutions is electric cars. But all batteries kind of suck. They all eventually lose efficiency and continually hold less and less electricity. However every few years better and more efficient batteries come out. Also we do not currently have the electrical infrastructure to handle coverting every car to electric. We simply do not have enough electricity to support this. We could cover good portions of the desert in solar panels, but hippies tend to have a hang up on covering up 1/3 of the country and taking away desert animals' habitats. And solar panel technology is continuously improving as more efficient panels are being produced every few years. So there's no point in starting to cover everything in solar panels now if in the next 10 years they'll be all be 10 times less efficient. The only real solution in the near future is to build more and advance the technology in nuclear power plants. Unfortunately hippies as well as a lot of normal people are afraid of nuclear anything and people particularly hate nuclear waste. So basically we're fucked because hippies don't like science. But we're pretty much waiting for nuclear technology (using Thorium-232, breeder reactors, etc), solar panel, and battery technology to get better (or for cold fusion) to solve our energy crisis. Heh, I don't think she can read. |
| __________________________________________ [May 14,2007 1:47pm - thegreatspaldino ""] Niccolai said:thegreatspaldino said: i probably would have done this by now if i wasnt addicted to turbocharged gas powered light weight sports cars and wagons that only run on gas twin turbo FTW. twin turbo is awesome but for all around drivability on the street a larger single turbo is more practical. in twin turbo applications you usually use 2 smaller turbos to push the same boost as a larger one. smaller turbos spool up faster and give you the extra HP MUCH faster. so if you are cruising around town and you put the accelerator about 11/4 throttle... your smaller turbos will spool and you will have more power than your intended. a larger turbo takes more time to spool therefore making cruising around town much more livable. the turbo thats on my car now is a T3... a lot of people use those because they are a cheap and by themselves can support about 20 psi and 300 rwhp. they make for a great twin turbo V8 application. in my older, faster car... i've lost traction a lot by accident in wet corners. if i had a bigger turbo it wouldnt have happened. all in all... you will never have more fun driving, when you drive a turbo car. |