Band Advice[views:21363][posts:114]__________________________________________ [Mar 3,2010 5:17pm - FuckIsMySignature ""] Well have a foot in the door at Sony BMG too cause my singer's dad works for a internet radio station and is friends with one of their A&R reps...we jsut havent really heard anything back on it lately. i wasnt aware Interscope was a division of Capitol records. I guess that would make sense though. As far as i know weve just been dealing with the Parent company. oh and lol at training gf metaphor |
| ____________________________ [Mar 3,2010 5:35pm - pam ""] Don't do it. I agree on telling them you just spent all your money recording a full length and you've got no interest in plunging yourselves into debt, in a shitty economy, no doubt taking time off work to record and possibly risking said jobs, just for the privileged of being CONSIDERED. Be polite and thank them for taking the time and see if they come at you with another offer. or gtfo. |
| _________________________________ [Mar 3,2010 5:48pm - Archaeon ""] I'd advise against this. Unless you sign a right of first refusal (basically saying that eventually you'll figure out a contract) Capitol records has no responsibility towards you what so ever. What they're doing is almost insulting and if they don't try to assist you now i can guarantee they will offer little support to you as an artist. If anyone has more question about stuff like this hit me up because this what I'm at school for. |
| __________________________________________ [Mar 3,2010 5:52pm - FuckIsMySignature ""] thanks everyone.. i'll prob have more info and more questions on this soon. i'm doin like usually do with info threads like is filtering all the useful info into a word doc for reference. |
| _______________________________________ [Mar 3,2010 6:00pm - AndrewBastard ""] Wouldnt it cost way less and be much more reasonable for them to fly their producer to YOU as opposed to flying a whole band plus gear to them? Plus you just recorded a full length. They will get the idea where you're coming from when they hear that right? Tell em to bugger off! |
| __________________________________________ [Mar 3,2010 6:15pm - FuckIsMySignature ""] i guess its because the producer lives in Cleveland and that his studio. i'm sure they have some sweetheart deal that lowers their costs to do it this way. |
| _________________________________________ [Mar 3,2010 6:34pm - goatcatalystnli ""] sounds like a fucking rad opportunity, but i'd be VERY wary putting up that kind of money. about 9 years ago, i was working with a friend who was managing a band from Dallas and we drove down while they were working with a "name" producer at some bitchin huge studio where stevie ray and panfuckingoddamntera recorded shit. they ended up spending something like $16,000 on this demo for i wanna say warner bros. and they didn't get picked up and were out their loot. if you can get the label to pay maybe half, it could be a pretty rad experience, though. music industry DEFINITELY isn't what it used to be. |
| ___________________________________ [Mar 3,2010 6:37pm - arilliusbm ""] this person above doesn't use capital letters. impostor Ryan is impostor. |
| ____________________________ [Mar 3,2010 6:40pm - pam ""] Archaeon said: What they're doing is INCREDIBLY insulting Fixed. |
| ________________________________________ [Mar 3,2010 6:58pm - PHILIP ANSELMO ""] You put lipstick on uh rattlesnake and you think that mothufuckers goanuh KISS you? Ah been lied to, worshipped and left to die my friend.Take back yoah will and do it yoahself.HOUSECORE ain't nevuh goahnnuh lie tuh ME? You unnuhstan'? |
| ______________________________________________ [Mar 3,2010 11:26pm - DARREL LANCE ABBOTT ""] im dead. |
| _____________________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 12:43am - VINCENT PAUL ABBOT ""] im fat and bad at drums |
| ___________________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 12:51am - FuckIsMySignature ""] UPDATE: So based on new information i think we are gonna end up pulling the trigger on this. The management company's president is gonna cover half of the cost out of pocket and only expects us to recoup if we get a deal (apparently he believes in us that much.) The demo needs to sound pro because it's going straight to the desk of the Capital Records president. So given that, we can cover half of the remaining cost with band funds already set aside and now only need to put up a grand out of pocket. Split that 4 ways and now we are talking something reasonable. We are still not guaranteed a deal out of this but we'll end up with a pro demo either way and a chance to shop it along a Showcase performance. I feel alot better about this now and think the risk is worth the reward. *fingers crossed* |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 12:58am - goatcatalyst ""] Fuck yeah. That' rad. Best of luck. |
| ________________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 12:58am - blessed offal ""] goatcatalyst said:Fuck yeah. That' rad. Best of luck. only replacing the letter s with an apostrophe is real |
| _____________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 1:01am - goatcatalyst ""] Trut' |
| _______________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 1:03am - blessed offal ""] fuc' yea' ma'. o' b' th' wa' di' yo' ge' m' messag'? |
| ______________________________ [Mar 4,2010 1:11am - ftgn ""] .?.; |
| _______________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 1:14am - blesse' offa' ""] ' don' ge' i' |
| _____________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 1:23am - goatcatalyst ""] Brenoritvrezorkre |
| ___________________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 1:25am - blesse‘ offa‘ ""] ryan when are you and bill gonna come down again and get hammered so i can sleep on the floor of your hotel room even though i live right down the street? |
| _____________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 2:15am - goatcatalyst ""] That was a goddamn good time. I was hoping we would be going to see Kreator in Worcester on Friday, but I don't think either of us can make it. No Visible Scars is releasing tapes from both Ipsissimus and Nightbitch soon, so I'm hoping both will be playing up there in the next few months. We'll rage soon. I wanna bring Witch Tomb and Blessed Offal to CT when Ipsissimus is back in gear and I'm booking shit. Got some other type shit up my sleeve as well. |
| ___________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 2:22am - RichHorror ""] Naked piss rituals. |
| _____________________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 3:37am - BobNOMAAMRooney nli ""] I sure some big hotshot from Capitol Records doesn't try to sign you away from me FIMS, otherwise Garth and I will have to get in all sorts of crazy shenanigans involving Alice Cooper and a trip to Milwaukee to win you back. |
| _____________________________ [Mar 4,2010 3:39am - blue ""] BobNOMAAMRooney%20nli said:Milwaukee which means 'the good land.' |
| _____________________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 3:43am - BobNOMAAMRooney nli ""] blue said: BobNOMAAMRooney%20nli said:Milwaukee which means 'the good land.' ZANG! |
| _____________________________ [Mar 4,2010 4:28am - Lamp ""] DOES THIS GUY KNOW HOW TO PARTY OR WHAT!? |
| _____________________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 4:34am - BobNOMAAMRooney nli ""] I'd never done a crazy thing in my life before that night. Why is it, that if a man kills another man in battle it's called heroic; yet if he kills a man in the heat of passion, it's called murder? |
| ____________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 8:20am - ouchdrummer ""] Tom, the thing is that they have a particular sound that they think you'd be marketable with, and they believe it's with that producer. Check him out, listen to his stuff, see if you WANT to have that sound. If you do, make sure you get a contract (that you have a lawyer look at) that covers everything they will do for you after you have the recording done. Don't just do it if they say they will probably deal with you after you work with that guy. 3 songs for 4500 is steep for an unsigned band. It's real steep. You can do about a week at some very high level studios for that. And you WOULD finish more than 3 songs in that week, as long as you're all prepared that is. |
| _____________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 8:31am - BlackoutRick ""] Why can't their producer come to you? Play hardball with these guys. |
| _______________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 8:38am - DestroyYouAlot ""] Autotuned H#9 demo FTW |
| _____________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 10:42am - The_Rooster ""] FuckIsMySignature said:UPDATE: The management company's president is gonna cover half of the cost out of pocket and only expects us to recoup if we get a deal. GET THAT SHIT IN WRITING! Also, good luck. I hope this works out for ya'll. |
| _____________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 10:43am - The_Rooster ""] Who's the producer, BTW? |
| ___________________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 11:57am - FuckIsMySignature ""] Ya we are definitely getting everything in writing and seeking a lawyer to help us look over contracts and shit. |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 12:03pm - BlackoutRick ""] Hopefully this turns out well for yall. Capital is fuckin HUGE. |
| ___________________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 12:12pm - FuckIsMySignature ""] ya i guess the guy from the management company found and helped sign bands like Matchbox 20, Collective Soul, and Buck Cherry (while not exactly rttp friendly bands - cant deny they became big names). |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 12:15pm - BlackoutRick ""] I'll take Collective Soul out of the three. Even though Rob Thomas is wicked stoner. |
| ____________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 12:16pm - arilliusbm ""] fims will be a future millionaire and founding member of a blues dark ambient metal band with ska influences |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 12:20pm - the_reverend ""] my advice to you, start drinking heavily. |
| ______________________________ [Mar 4,2010 12:45pm - Yeti ""] start? |
| ___________________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 12:54pm - FuckIsMySignature ""] arilliusbm said:fims will be a future millionaire and founding member of a blues dark ambient metal band with ska influences HAHAHAHA |
| _______________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 1:14pm - blessed offal ""] the_reverend said:my advice to you, start drinking heavily. this |
| ________________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 1:44pm - metal_church101 ""] the_reverend said:my advice to you, start drinking heavily. Yeti said:start? |
| ____________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 2:17pm - DYA is HST ""] the_reverend said:my advice to you, start drinking heavily. Here, eat these peanuts. If you've never been through a transmat beam before you've probably lost some salt and protein. |
| _______________________________ [Mar 4,2010 2:22pm - V-190 ""] This oft-referenced article is from the early '90s, and originally appeared in Maximum Rock 'n' Roll magazine. While some of the information and figures listed here are dated, it is still a useful and informative article. And no, we don't know how to reach Steve Albini. -Negativland www.negativland.com The Problem With Music by Steve Albini Whenever I talk to a band who are about to sign with a major label, I always end up thinking of them in a particular context. I imagine a trench, about four feet wide and five feet deep, maybe sixty yards long, filled with runny, decaying shit. I imagine these people, some of them good friends, some of them barely acquaintances, at one end of this trench. I also imagine a faceless industry lackey at the other end holding a fountain pen and a contract waiting to be signed. Nobody can see what's printed on the contract. It's too far away, and besides, the shit stench is making everybody's eyes water. The lackey shouts to everybody that the first one to swim the trench gets to sign the contract. Everybody dives in the trench and they struggle furiously to get to the other end. Two people arrive simultaneously and begin wrestling furiously, clawing each other and dunking each other under the shit. Eventually, one of them capitulates, and there's only one contestant left. He reaches for the pen, but the Lackey says "Actually, I think you need a little more development. Swim again, please. Backstroke". And he does of course. Every major label involved in the hunt for new bands now has on staff a high-profile point man, an "A & R" rep who can present a comfortable face to any prospective band. The initials stand for "Artist and Repertoire." because historically, the A & R staff would select artists to record music that they had also selected, out of an available pool of each. This is still the case, though not openly. These guys are universally young [about the same age as the bands being wooed], and nowadays they always have some obvious underground rock credibility flag they can wave. Lyle Preslar, former guitarist for Minor Threat, is one of them. Terry Tolkin, former NY independent booking agent and assistant manager at Touch and Go is one of them. Al Smith, former soundman at CBGB is one of them. Mike Gitter, former editor of XXX fanzine and contributor to Rip, Kerrang and other lowbrow rags is one of them. Many of the annoying turds who used to staff college radio stations are in their ranks as well. There are several reasons A & R scouts are always young. The explanation usually copped-to is that the scout will be "hip to the current musical "scene." A more important reason is that the bands will intuitively trust someone they think is a peer, and who speaks fondly of the same formative rock and roll experiences. The A & R person is the first person to make contact with the band, and as such is the first person to promise them the moon. Who better to promise them the moon than an idealistic young turk who expects to be calling the shots in a few years, and who has had no previous experience with a big record company. Hell, he's as naive as the band he's duping. When he tells them no one will interfere in their creative process, he probably even believes it. When he sits down with the band for the first time, over a plate of angel hair pasta, he can tell them with all sincerity that when they sign with company X, they're really signing with him and he's on their side. Remember that great gig I saw you at in '85? Didn't we have a blast. By now all rock bands are wise enough to be suspicious of music industry scum. There is a pervasive caricature in popular culture of a portly, middle aged ex-hipster talking a mile-a-minute, using outdated jargon and calling everybody "baby." After meeting "their" A & R guy, the band will say to themselves and everyone else, "He's not like a record company guy at all! He's like one of us." And they will be right. That's one of the reasons he was hired. These A & R guys are not allowed to write contracts. What they do is present the band with a letter of intent, or "deal memo," which loosely states some terms, and affirms that the band will sign with the label once a contract has been agreed on. The spookiest thing about this harmless sounding little memo, is that it is, for all legal purposes, a binding document. That is, once the band signs it, they are under obligation to conclude a deal with the label. If the label presents them with a contract that the band don't want to sign, all the label has to do is wait. There are a hundred other bands willing to sign the exact same contract, so the label is in a position of strength. These letters never have any terms of expiration, so the band remain bound by the deal memo until a contract is signed, no matter how long that takes. The band cannot sign to another laborer or even put out its own material unless they are released from their agreement, which never happens. Make no mistake about it: once a band has signed a letter of intent, they will either eventually sign a contract that suits the label or they will be destroyed. One of my favorite bands was held hostage for the better part of two years by a slick young "He's not like a label guy at all," A & R rep, on the basis of such a deal memo. He had failed to come through on any of his promises [something he did with similar effect to another well-known band], and so the band wanted out. Another label expressed interest, but when the A & R man was asked to release the band, he said he would need money or points, or possibly both, before he would consider it. The new label was afraid the price would be too dear, and they said no thanks. On the cusp of making their signature album, an excellent band, humiliated, broke up from the stress and the many months of inactivity. There's this band. They're pretty ordinary, but they're also pretty good, so they've attracted some attention. They're signed to a moderate-sized "independent" label owned by a distribution company, and they have another two albums owed to the label. They're a little ambitious. They'd like to get signed by a major label so they can have some security you know, get some good equipment, tour in a proper tour bus -- nothing fancy, just a little reward for all the hard work. To that end, they got a manager. He knows some of the label guys, and he can shop their next project to all the right people. He takes his cut, sure, but it's only 15%, and if he can get them signed then it's money well spent. Anyways, it doesn't cost them anything if it doesn't work. 15% of nothing isn't much! One day an A & R scout calls them, says he's 'been following them for a while now, and when their manager mentioned them to him, it just "clicked." Would they like to meet with him about the possibility of working out a deal with his label? Wow. Big Break time. They meet the guy, and y'know what -- he's not what they expected from a label guy. He's young and dresses pretty much like the band does. He knows all their favorite bands. He's like one of them. He tells them he wants to go to bat for them, to try to get them everything they want. He says anything is possible with the right attitude. They conclude the evening by taking home a copy of a deal memo they wrote out and signed on the spot. The A & R guy was full of great ideas, even talked about using a name producer. Butch Vig is out of the question-he wants 100 g's and three points, but they can get Don Fleming for $30,000 plus three points. Even that's a little steep, so maybe they'll go with that guy who used to be in David Letterman's band. He only wants three points. Or they can have just anybody record it (like Warton Tiers, maybe-- cost you 5 or 7 grand] and have Andy Wallace remix it for 4 grand a track plus 2 points. It was a lot to think about. Well, they like this guy and they trust him. Besides, they already signed the deal memo. He must have been serious about wanting them to sign. They break the news to their current label, and the label manager says he wants them to succeed, so they have his blessing. He will need to be compensated, of course, for the remaining albums left on their contract, but he'll work it out with the label himself. Sub Pop made millions from selling off Nirvana, and Twin Tone hasn't done bad either: 50 grand for the Babes and 60 grand for the Poster Children-- without having to sell a single additional record. It'll be something modest. The new label doesn't mind, so long as it's recoupable out of royalties. Well, they get the final contract, and it's not quite what they expected. They figure it's better to be safe than sorry and they turn it over to a lawyer--one who says he's experienced in entertainment law and he hammers out a few bugs. They're still not sure about it, but the lawyer says he's seen a lot of contracts, and theirs is pretty good. They'll be great royalty: 13% [less a 1O% packaging deduction]. Wasn't it Buffalo Tom that were only getting 12% less 10? Whatever. The old label only wants 50 grand, an no points. Hell, Sub Pop got 3 points when they let Nirvana go. They're signed for four years, with options on each year, for a total of over a million dollars! That's a lot of money in any man's English. The first year's advance alone is $250,000. Just think about it, a quarter million, just for being in a rock band! Their manager thinks it's a great deal, especially the large advance. Besides, he knows a publishing company that will take the band on if they get signed, and even give them an advance of 20 grand, so they'll be making that money too. The manager says publishing is pretty mysterious, and nobody really knows where all the money comes from, but the lawyer can look that contract over too. Hell, it's free money. Their booking agent is excited about the band signing to a major. He says they can maybe average $1,000 or $2,000 a night from now on. That's enough to justify a five week tour, and with tour support, they can use a proper crew, buy some good equipment and even get a tour bus! Buses are pretty expensive, but if you figure in the price of a hotel room for everybody In the band and crew, they're actually about the same cost. Some bands like Therapy? and Sloan and Stereolab use buses on their tours even when they're getting paid only a couple hundred bucks a night, and this tour should earn at least a grand or two every night. It'll be worth it. The band will be more comfortable and will play better. The agent says a band on a major label can get a merchandising company to pay them an advance on T-shirt sales! ridiculous! There's a gold mine here! The lawyer Should look over the merchandising contract, just to be safe. They get drunk at the signing party. Polaroids are taken and everybody looks thrilled. The label picked them up in a limo. They decided to go with the producer who used to be in Letterman's band. He had these technicians come in and tune the drums for them and tweak their amps and guitars. He had a guy bring in a slew of expensive old "vintage" microphones. Boy, were they "warm." He even had a guy come in and check the phase of all the equipment in the control room! Boy, was he professional. He used a bunch of equipment on them and by the end of it, they all agreed that it sounded very "punchy," yet "warm." All that hard work paid off. With the help of a video, the album went like hotcakes! They sold a quarter million copies! Here is the math that will explain just how fucked they are: These figures are representative of amounts that appear in record contracts daily. There's no need to skew the figures to make the scenario look bad, since real-life examples more than abound. income is bold and underlined, expenses are not. Advance: $ 250,000 Manager's cut: $ 37,500 Legal fees: $ 10,000 Recording Budget: $ 150,000 Producer's advance: $ 50,000 Studio fee: $ 52,500 Drum Amp, Mic and Phase "Doctors": $ 3,000 Recording tape: $ 8,000 Equipment rental: $ 5,000 Cartage and Transportation: $ 5,000 Lodgings while in studio: $ 10,000 Catering: $ 3,000 Mastering: $ 10,000 Tape copies, reference CDs, shipping tapes, misc. expenses: $ 2,000 Video budget: $ 30,000 Cameras: $ 8,000 Crew: $ 5,000 Processing and transfers: $ 3,000 Off-line: $ 2,000 On-line editing: $ 3,000 Catering: $ 1,000 Stage and construction: $ 3,000 Copies, couriers, transportation: $ 2,000 Director's fee: $ 3,000 Album Artwork: $ 5,000 Promotional photo shoot and duplication: $ 2,000 Band fund: $ 15,000 New fancy professional drum kit: $ 5,000 New fancy professional guitars [2]: $ 3,000 New fancy professional guitar amp rigs [2]: $ 4,000 New fancy potato-shaped bass guitar: $ 1,000 New fancy rack of lights bass amp: $ 1,000 Rehearsal space rental: $ 500 Big blowout party for their friends: $ 500 Tour expense [5 weeks]: $ 50,875 Bus: $ 25,000 Crew [3]: $ 7,500 Food and per diems: $ 7,875 Fuel: $ 3,000 Consumable supplies: $ 3,500 Wardrobe: $ 1,000 Promotion: $ 3,000 Tour gross income: $ 50,000 Agent's cut: $ 7,500 Manager's cut: $ 7,500 Merchandising advance: $ 20,000 Manager's cut: $ 3,000 Lawyer's fee: $ 1,000 Publishing advance: $ 20,000 Manager's cut: $ 3,000 Lawyer's fee: $ 1,000 Record sales: 250,000 @ $12 = $3,000,000 Gross retail revenue Royalty: [13% of 90% of retail]: $ 351,000 Less advance: $ 250,000 Producer's points: [3% less $50,000 advance]: $ 40,000 Promotional budget: $ 25,000 Recoupable buyout from previous label: $ 50,000 Net royalty: $ -14,000 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Record company income: Record wholesale price: $6.50 x 250,000 = $1,625,000 gross income Artist Royalties: $ 351,000 Deficit from royalties: $ 14,000 Manufacturing, packaging and distribution: @ $2.20 per record: $ 550,000 Gross profit: $ 7l0,000 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Balance Sheet: This is how much each player got paid at the end of the game. Record company: $ 710,000 Producer: $ 90,000 Manager: $ 51,000 Studio: $ 52,500 Previous label: $ 50,000 Agent: $ 7,500 Lawyer: $ 12,000 Band member net income each: $ 4,031.25 The band is now 1/4 of the way through its contract, has made the music industry more than 3 million dollars richer, but is in the hole $14,000 on royalties. The band members have each earned about 1/3 as much as they would working at a 7-11, but they got to ride in a tour bus for a month. The next album will be about the same, except that the record company will insist they spend more time and money on it. Since the previous one never "recouped," the band will have no leverage, and will oblige. The next tour will be about the same, except the merchandising advance will have already been paid, and the band, strangely enough, won't have earned any royalties from their T-shirts yet. Maybe the T-shirt guys have figured out how to count money like record company guys. Some of your friends are probably already this fucked. Steve Albini is an independent and corporate rock record producer most widely known for having produced Nirvana's "In Utero". |
| _____________________________ [Mar 4,2010 3:23pm - Yeti ""] oh my. if that doesn't rain diarrhea all over anyone's parade, nothing will. |
| ______________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 3:41pm - Alexecutioner ""] Sacreligion said:I wouldn't go in demanding ridiculous things but it's not out of line to ask for some assistance with those recording costs. tell them you want a giant baby bottle and a football helmet filled with cottage cheese or no deal |
| __________________________________________ [Mar 4,2010 4:05pm - FuckIsMySignature ""] V-190 said:Albini Article Hah i showed that article to my singer and he'd already read it... i think i read that in my only semester of college too. At least being aware of these things might help us avoid traps and pitfalls. |
| _____________________________ [Mar 4,2010 4:35pm - Lamp ""] I read that article many years ago myself but it's still a good read today. |
| ___________________________________________ [Apr 9,2010 10:15am - FuckIsMySignature ""] Leaving this weekend. Gonna play a show out there too. Psyched. *fingers crossed* |