black guys as preppies?[views:12810][posts:100]_______________________________ [Sep 23,2010 3:31pm - boxxy ""] ShadowSD said: poopshit said:i think it's more something like "hey, Kevin, these rap guys are sure a hit... i think it would be great if for our next cereal commerical, we put one of those kinda guys rapping to his mom about how tasty it is." That would be nice if that's all it was, but there was a coordinated industry effort to blackball a lot of bands and market a revolving door of hip hop acts in 1993 that spanned radio and TV from music to commercials. MTV and radio OVERNIGHT went from showing mostly metal to blackballing all metal videos before midnight except GN'R, Metallica, Aerosmith, and a single Danzig video. If this was due to sales, fine - but look up the numbers yourself and it made no sense; metal bands were through 1992 and into 1993 selling millions upon millions of albums, with several reliably multi-platinum bands out there that had no sign of a downturn in tour or album sales, while not a single rap album had ever been multi-platinum (4 million albums or more) EVEN BY THE END of 1993, and aside from a single Dre and Snoop album, not a single rap album in history had gone double platinum (2 million albums) by then. Megadeth's 1992 album hit #2 and Mustaine hosted MTV's Democratic Convention coverage; Megadeth's 1994 album debuted at #4 with zero advance video play and MTV continued to refuse to play a single song off of it before midnight, receiving similar treatment as Pantera's #1 album that year. These execs were purposefully blackballing metal bands and pushing rap not because of but in spite of the sales, under the theory that a revolving door of rap and r&b one hit wonders was a better well to draw from than bands that sold reliably but could ask for a bigger cut every subsequent album and tour. Do I think executives were laughing manicially about getting to exploit blacks? Of course not. But they certainly weren't dumb enough to be unaware of the irony and tastelessness of what they were doing, which is why the Simpsons joke to that effect worked. i think it's harmless until it snowballs and you get an "iffy" aspect like whites using the word "nigga". other than that, i don't see any co-opting of direct pain and suffering. But that's a problem, it's a slippery slope, and there's really no avoiding the iffy aspects eventually, because of course it's going to snowball. so..... you're just mad because rap/hip-hop became popular instead of the music you like? Because the popularity of the music is the reason why it's been incorporated into commercials, jingles, etc.. It's been used so much because it makes money. Did your best friend stop hanging out with you because you didn't like rap? I think you need a hug. |
| ____________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 3:32pm - arilliusbm ""] I don't. I'm associating it with what seems to be the majority of white suburban thugs that throw their life away the moment they decide to have zero ambitions. Same could be said for any clique; but from my perspective it seems that the majority of these people are caught in MTV culture. |
| __________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 3:33pm - ShadowSD ""] boxxy said:At the beginning of this thread someone said that white kids from the suburbs shouldn't talk or dress like black people from poverty.... why? because it's offensive, and they're idiots. (i'm not paraphrasing, they actually said that.) Those statements are CLOSED MINDED and any attempt to explain how they're not is backpedaling from a point of view that they realize is wrong. Actually, this may be the source of our misunderstanding to begin with, what I said was actually "What's weird and disturbing is suburban white kids who think parodying ebonics and urban dress is anything but incredibly offensive." Parody means satire/mockery; it does NOT carry a positive connotation. Therefore, I stand by the quote 100%. |
| _______________________________ [Sep 23,2010 3:35pm - boxxy ""] That's strange to me, because where i grew up (suburban, middleclass) there were definitely kids that were into hip-hop culture/dress/lingo, and there were kids who had no ambition and who seemed intent on throwing away their future, but the two groups were NOT mutually exclusive. Yes some people fell into both catagories, but that was true with kids that were into metal, into goth, jocks, and kids who just didn't give a fuck. |
| ____________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 3:41pm - arilliusbm ""] Then we must agree to disagree. People with zero ambitions fall under every category. But to me, (in my analysis of society at least), most (NOT ALL) of the middle-class or rich "wiggers" exemplified that more than other cliques. |
| ___________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 3:45pm - poopshit ""] yeah ShadowSD, i don't know what to say. it just sounds like you're sore because of some business choices that were undoubtedly made because of marketability. i watched MTV then, sadly, but i definitely don't remember some huge purge and switch from METAL (like what? Extreme? Mr. Big? Warrant?) to rap overnight. fuck, when "grunge" hit at that time it was alllll over MTV, just like Dr. Dre and Snoop and other stuff. |
| _______________________________ [Sep 23,2010 3:45pm - boxxy ""] ShadowSD said: boxxy said:At the beginning of this thread someone said that white kids from the suburbs shouldn't talk or dress like black people from poverty.... why? because it's offensive, and they're idiots. (i'm not paraphrasing, they actually said that.) Those statements are CLOSED MINDED and any attempt to explain how they're not is backpedaling from a point of view that they realize is wrong. Actually, this may be the source of our misunderstanding to begin with, what I said was actually "What's weird and disturbing is suburban white kids who think parodying ebonics and urban dress is anything but incredibly offensive." Parody means satire/mockery; it does NOT carry a positive connotation. Therefore, I stand by the quote 100%. Ok, so when i asked if you were talking about "wiggers" you should have said no... It COULD be argued that white kids "parody" ebonix, but to dress urban/black? Sorry, if they dress that way, then it's not a parody, and seeing as we've been talking about how they dress in this whole thread, i stand by the fact that you're closed-minded. |
| ___________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 3:52pm - poopshit ""] re: arillius, i guess we're just talking about different degrees and concentrations of wigger. as we know, massachusetts definitely varies in its flavors of scumbagness. i drove through pittsfield the other day, not a black dude in sight, but tons of horrendous wigger trash with bad old english tattoos and bumpin' cars and shit like that. ouch.... however, i'm from the south shore and have spent a lot of time unfortunately ending up at parties filled with the worst townie, local, dude-brah, Red Sox gear, painkiller addicted, fired-from-the-union pieces of shit that were worlds apart from being "wigger". they were just pieces of shit! |
| __________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 3:55pm - ShadowSD ""] boxxy said:Because the popularity of the music is the reason why it's been incorporated into commercials, jingles, etc.. Well, I just gave you a paragraph disproving that as the initial cause for market saturation, so I'd say that's a giant fail in reading comprehension. boxxy said:Did your best friend stop hanging out with you because you didn't like rap? I think you need a hug. Wow that's an even bigger fail, actually you couldn't have it more backwards, it was when I admitted to myself how much I hated rap and when I discovered actual music at the beginning of high school that I started to eventually make a few friends. Before that, I not only didn't have any but pretty much rubbed everybody the wrong way; the fact is, it was only once I knew myself and consequently carried myself with respect that other kids went from treating me like shit to showing me a lot of respect. You on the other hand seem to think being a poseur is the best way to satisfy people; I can tell you that if I had some "friend" who only stopped hanging out with me because I had taste in music, I would consider that good news to be rid of the person. Unfortunately, I never had the opportunity to reject someone that stupid, but the benefit is that I never had a friend that stupid to begin with. Not to detract from your alternate imaginary bio of my life or anything. |
| ___________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 3:55pm - arktouros ""] i would bet that in a young adult population "wigger" and "not ambitious" correlate a hell of a lot more than other social cliques. rich-suburban-wigger guy meets inner-city-broke-ass-nigga guy. would nigga guy find it strange that wigger guy looks, talks, acts just like him? cause i sure fucking would. especially when wigger guy just failed out of his 2nd semester in college while nigga guy has to support his mom that can't work. just saying i sort of disagree with you jim. image means a lot to the people you emulate. it's a culture thing - white suburban kid dresses that way because there's an image they go for. inner-city guy dresses that way because it's part of his culture and it's common among everyone he knows. it's like when a wigger from ayer is wearing a yankees hat just for the fuck of it. you can tell a mile away that he's a douchebag. |
| __________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 3:57pm - ShadowSD ""] poopshit said:yeah ShadowSD, i don't know what to say. it just sounds like you're sore because of some business choices that were undoubtedly made because of marketability. Why don't you look at the album sales data before saying undoubtedly? |
| ____________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 3:58pm - arilliusbm ""] I'm with ark |
| ___________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 4:03pm - poopshit ""] you tell me then, in one or two sentences: what are the other reasons they would market it so much? because they were racist? |
| _______________________________ [Sep 23,2010 4:07pm - boxxy ""] poopshit said:re: arillius, i guess we're just talking about different degrees and concentrations of wigger. as we know, massachusetts definitely varies in its flavors of scumbagness. i drove through pittsfield the other day, not a black dude in sight, but tons of horrendous wigger trash with bad old english tattoos and bumpin' cars and shit like that. ouch.... however, i'm from the south shore and have spent a lot of time unfortunately ending up at parties filled with the worst townie, local, dude-brah, Red Sox gear, painkiller addicted, fired-from-the-union pieces of shit that were worlds apart from being "wigger". they were just pieces of shit! right, i think people just have an easier time ignoring duchebags that look like themselves. Shadow-i was just being a dick with those statements about your life, my entire argument is solid as a rock and was explained in earlier posts. Ark-aril-shadow- so you guys think that wiggers are more often lowlifes than other subcultures... I get what you're saying, i don't agree, but i understand. I just know so many lowlifes from so many other styles/walks of life that i think your statement is based on stereotypes. |
| __________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 4:09pm - ShadowSD ""] arilliusbm said:Then we must agree to disagree. People with zero ambitions fall under every category. But to me, (in my analysis of society at least), most (NOT ALL) of the middle-class or rich "wiggers" exemplified that more than other cliques. You are absolutely right, and the reason for this is simple. There is an anti-education/information bias in the language and culture, which originally eminated as a legitimate resentment among the most impoverished African Americans during slavery and segregation who lashed out in the only way they could, with a rejection of the standards of greatness set by society that they were not given a fair shake at. Some will argue that there is punk music and even some metal music that isn't exactly pro-intellectual, but no form of pop culture other than rap is so vigorously wedded to the pursuit of stupidity, misogyny, and selfishness; it become more than a negative emotion captured by a song, but rather a constant philosophy from song to song with not even a drop of self-awareness and irony to make its rough edges sensical (as opposed to say, a metal band like Scaphism writing songs about rape). |
| ___________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 4:10pm - arktouros ""] boxxy said:At the beginning of this thread someone said that white kids from the suburbs shouldn't talk or dress like black people from poverty.... why? because it's offensive, and they're idiots. (i'm not paraphrasing, they actually said that.) Those statements are CLOSED MINDED and any attempt to explain how they're not is backpedaling from a point of view that they realize is wrong. i'm saying it is offensive to someone who is part of the "urban/rap/inner-city/black/i don't know what to call it" culture, when someone obviously in a different social and economic class goes out of their way to change their mannerisms, looks, and personality. also, not only would i find it wrong if i was part of that culture, but you can probably guess his level of individuality and self-awareness is pretty fucking low. and in response to the OP, asians had them beat decades ago. |
| _______________________________ [Sep 23,2010 4:13pm - boxxy ""] arktouros said: boxxy said:At the beginning of this thread someone said that white kids from the suburbs shouldn't talk or dress like black people from poverty.... why? because it's offensive, and they're idiots. (i'm not paraphrasing, they actually said that.) Those statements are CLOSED MINDED and any attempt to explain how they're not is backpedaling from a point of view that they realize is wrong. i'm saying it is offensive to someone who is part of the "urban/rap/inner-city/black/i don't know what to call it" culture, when someone obviously in a different social and economic class goes out of their way to change their mannerisms, looks, and personality. also, not only would i find it wrong if i was part of that culture, but you can probably guess his level of individuality and self-awareness is pretty fucking low. and in response to the OP, asians had them beat decades ago. maybe YOU didn't read the thread sir, because that's not what i was talking about. You said you agreed with aril, who blatantly said that a higher proportion of wiggers become lowlifes than of other subcultures. |
| __________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 4:13pm - ShadowSD ""] poopshit said:you tell me then, in one or two sentences: what are the other reasons they would market it so much? because they were racist? Dude, I already answered this exact point: "You are also correct that hip-hop culture is pervasive and catchy, which is one reason mass industry jumped on it in the early 90's; they knew a catchy rap on a chicken commercial would grab even those few who couldn't sing along with the melody of a jingle, and thus making it common in all commericial media could increase their bottom line... These execs were purposefully blackballing metal bands and pushing rap not because of but in spite of the sales, under the theory that a revolving door of rap and r&b one hit wonders was a better well to draw from than bands that sold reliably but could ask for a bigger cut every subsequent album and tour." |
| _______________________________ [Sep 23,2010 4:14pm - boxxy ""] arilliusbm said:Then we must agree to disagree. People with zero ambitions fall under every category. But to me, (in my analysis of society at least), most (NOT ALL) of the middle-class or rich "wiggers" exemplified that more than other cliques. ark - see? |
| ___________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 4:17pm - poopshit ""] ok, so.... MARKETABILITY/POPULARITY. making money 'cause it's hot shit! that's all! Boxxy already put that to you, man. You just sound personally offended that this stuff became more popular. |
| ____________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 4:19pm - arilliusbm ""] There was a time when hiphop/punk/metal were all unified as underground social cliques and subcultures. They went their own way. Bring back the fucking 80s. |
| _______________________________ [Sep 23,2010 4:22pm - boxxy ""] poopshit said:ok, so.... MARKETABILITY/POPULARITY. making money 'cause it's hot shit! that's all! Boxxy already put that to you, man. You just sound personally offended that this stuff became more popular. Record companies do what makes money, so do marketing/advertising people. That fact is solid as gold FACTBOMB and anyone who thinks some conspiracy goes against it is deranged. |
| ___________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 4:24pm - arktouros ""] boxxy said:Ark-aril-shadow- so you guys think that wiggers are more often lowlifes than other subcultures... I get what you're saying, i don't agree, but i understand. I just know so many lowlifes from so many other styles/walks of life that i think your statement is based on stereotypes. yes. and it's not racial at all. my definition of "wiggers" is damn close to "juggalos" and, well, "morons"...we're not being the least bit scientific here and are stereotyping a bit, sure. but you can tell a lot about a person by "how hard they're trying" and the language they use in conversation, how much they invest themselves in a subculture (which is just an idea after all, and can be a belief system or not....more often than not these people would have disjointed beliefs or none at all) and i've talked to enough wiggers to easily base this stereotype on a piece of my own reality. so there. |
| _______________________________ [Sep 23,2010 4:28pm - boxxy ""] and you think that wiggers are more often lowlifes than say.... kids in corpse paint, or goth kids, or rave kids covered in colorful jewelry? Cause i don't think you do. The statement you just made is true, and smart. The statement that i've been arguing with is that WIGGERS specifically, imitating black/urban culture SPECIFICALLY are more commmonly lowlifes than people from other subcultures and cliches. So please, stop arguing with me if you don't understand what i'm arguing about. |
| ___________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 4:30pm - arktouros ""] boxxy said: arilliusbm said:Then we must agree to disagree. People with zero ambitions fall under every category. But to me, (in my analysis of society at least), most (NOT ALL) of the middle-class or rich "wiggers" exemplified that more than other cliques. ark - see? see what? i agree with that. "most" probably not. but if you could be classified as "wigger" in the first place...well, maybe rich white kid should work getting to know himself a little bit more? |
| ___________________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 4:32pm - FuckIsMySignature ""] only Nig Niggerson is real |
| ___________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 4:33pm - poopshit ""] it's 2010 man, if a rich white kid wants to look like the people who make the music he likes, he can. lord knows there are plenty of rich kids looking like punks, or sludge dudes with beards, or fake bike messengers. |
| ___________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 4:37pm - arktouros ""] i'm arguing that i hate wiggers and that they have more potential to be a scumbag than the people they're trying to imitate. and i believe that goth kid can grow up to be president of the americas. ok? |
| ___________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 4:38pm - poopshit ""] haha. |
| ___________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 4:40pm - arktouros ""] arktouros said:i would bet that in a young adult population "wigger" and "not ambitious" correlate a hell of a lot more than other social cliques. and yeah jim i do stand by this for the sake of argument. do a study about it. |
| ____________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 5:14pm - arilliusbm ""] nekronaut said: arilliusbm said:this thread is racist |
| ___________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 5:48pm - GO DEMS! ""] arktouros said:wiggers...have more potential to be a scumbag than the people they're trying to imitate Wiggers suck. So does diversity, which is a stupid idea. |
| __________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 5:55pm - ShadowSD ""] I am arguing with someone who doesn't understand that the profit margin on each album sold has become the key variable in a record company's arithmetic, and I'm done trying to explain it over and over. Go read something. |
| _________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 9:05pm - reimroc ""] people can dress however they want to. its the way they act that matters. |
| __________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 9:51pm - Dankill ""] http://www.pornoxo.com/videos/31968/black-girl-has-fun-with-white-guy-.html |
| __________________________________ [Sep 23,2010 10:44pm - martins ""] arilliusbm said: nekronaut said: arilliusbm said:this thread is racist |
| ___________________________________ [Sep 24,2010 2:36am - poopshit ""] ShadowSD said:I am arguing with someone who doesn't understand that the profit margin on each album sold has become the key variable in a record company's arithmetic, and I'm done trying to explain it over and over. Go read something. profit margin. ok. got it. PROFIT MARGIN. PROFIT MARGIN. how, in the end, does that boil down to anything else other than: "make money on product X because product X is hot shit?" it doesn't. there are no other factors that drive this industry (or almost any other industry). are you reading the same thread as me? |
| ____________________________________ [Sep 24,2010 2:38am - arilliusbm ""] martins said: arilliusbm said: nekronaut said: arilliusbm said:this thread is racist |
| ___________________________________ [Sep 24,2010 8:31am - poopshit ""] "see? see these figures from 1993? our music WAS better!! look at the figures! they fucked us, man! they fucked us! WE deserved that marketing push, not the black guys!!!" |
| _______________________________ [Sep 24,2010 2:05pm - boxxy ""] This thread is like a politicians debate. Seriously, it started with someone saying that kids that dressed like wiggers were offensive idiots. I said they were closed minded, and THAT'S what started the argument. Then everytime someone brought a reasonable statement foward, someone else made a point that at best is RELEVANT to what the conversation was at the time, therefore making the whole thread incredibly irritating. Fuck this thread. |
| ____________________________________ [Sep 24,2010 2:15pm - arilliusbm ""] I'm still lost because I never clicked the link in the first post. Wiggers are cool and top contributors to society. That's all you need to know. |
| _______________________________ [Sep 24,2010 2:46pm - boxxy ""] arilliusbm said: Wiggers are cool and top contributors to society. muahahaha |
| ____________________________________ [Sep 24,2010 3:11pm - arilliusbm ""] The worst was when Eninem/SlimShady got popular and all these dudes bleached their hair and started acting like him... yeti was one of them |
| ___________________________________________ [Sep 24,2010 3:16pm - FuckIsMySignature ""] only J-Roc is real. [img] |
| ______________________________ [Sep 24,2010 3:24pm - Yeti ""] arilliusbm said:The worst was when Eninem/SlimShady got popular and all these dudes bleached their hair and started acting like him... yeti was one of them I WAS DOWN WIT DA CLOWN YO! I AIN'T LISTENIN' TA NO EMINEM BIATCH!! |
| _______________________________ [Sep 24,2010 3:30pm - boxxy ""] na, eminem never did it for me. Only Mr. Lif & Akrobatic are real. |
| __________________________________________ [Sep 24,2010 3:33pm - largefreakatzero ""] Wegroes are ridiculous. "People" (I use that term loosely) CAN do whatever they want, and it's my right to mercilessly make fun of them. I am close-minded and enjoy laughing at stereotypes. The human race is doomed, mainly due to a crippling overpopulation problem. I look forward to the day where my withdrawal from humanity is complete and I seldom have to venture to urban areas. |
| _______________________________ [Sep 24,2010 3:35pm - boxxy ""] well, the next step towards complete withdrawal from humanity COULD be to stop posting on message boards. but i'd be sad if that was the case. |
| __________________________________________ [Sep 24,2010 3:47pm - largefreakatzero ""] Complete withdrawal is impossible, unless, in the words of Don Rickles, I "go buy a horse and live in the hills and stop bothering people". Hence, I continue to lurk here. |
| ____________________________________ [Sep 24,2010 3:52pm - arilliusbm ""] The real largefreakatzero stopped posting years ago. His 2 dogs have been posting. |